Grudge Match of the Month

[Hubay]

Hey everyone! I've attached a start file below for a new grudge match. This one's a OCC, which I thought might switch things up a bit. I've never really made a map before, so I wasn't quite sure what to look for, but I think this one turned out well.



Civ: Ottomans
Size: 5 civs, 12 CS
Difficulty: Emperor

Vem version 131.

 

[kc_bandit]

Okay, cool. Help me out though, is this like GotVEM or something else?

My apologies for the newb questions. Do I need any DLC? I have it all, so not a problem, but need to know if I should disable anything. Is there a goal in mind? Any victory conditions?

 

[lindanealmck]

Based on the other thread, I am assumming that Spain/Inca/Babylon should be disabled.

This should be DLC2 and DCLDeluxe

 

[kc_bandit]

Based on the other thread, I am assumming that Spain/Inca/Babylon should be disabled.

This should be DLC2 and DCLDeluxe

Thanks! Are we supposed to know anything about the map or the other Civs like I saw in the prior Grudge Match thread?

I am hoping that is ocean and not a lake! Is that Tundra or desert in half of our starting location? Ugh! I guess Machu Piccu isn't that important in an OCC game, but I do see that mountain. The resulting tile is nice regardless from that GW.

PS - before I start this, does our city have to be directly adjacent to a mountain for an observatory or can it be a tile or two away???

 

[Hubay]

@KC –
you need to be next to the mountain to get observatories. you'll want Korea as a DLC, but that's it. And yeah, there's a bit of desert, but also a lot of resources. I thought it ended up being a decent balance, but lemme know if you think I nerfed it too much!

As for victory conditions, what do you guys think? I feel like OCC tends to skew towards cultural, and that's what I'm going for.

But I'll have a lot of respect for anyone who decides to shoot for Domination.

 

[lindanealmck]

Did you set it up as a OCC?; because my settler cannot settle. Yes, I see that you did. LOL - built the pyramids and hit the Liberty tree - oh well, better luck next time.

 

[kc_bandit]

@KC –
you need to be next to the mountain to get observatories. you'll want Korea as a DLC, but that's it. And yeah, there's a bit of desert, but also a lot of resources. I thought it ended up being a decent balance, but lemme know if you think I nerfed it too much!

As for victory conditions, what do you guys think? I feel like OCC tends to skew towards cultural, and that's what I'm going for.

But I'll have a lot of respect for anyone who decides to shoot for Domination.

Okay, cool. Thanks! I am assuming that domination would mean killing capitals since you can't capture them? Have never done that - and I am curious as to what the heck happens to GW's that are in those capitals???

 

[kc_bandit]

@KC –
you need to be next to the mountain to get observatories. you'll want Korea as a DLC, but that's it. And yeah, there's a bit of desert, but also a lot of resources. I thought it ended up being a decent balance, but lemme know if you think I nerfed it too much!

As for victory conditions, what do you guys think? I feel like OCC tends to skew towards cultural, and that's what I'm going for.

But I'll have a lot of respect for anyone who decides to shoot for Domination.

So you don't want us to have access to the other World Wonders, I assume - like the Temple of Artemis, Mausoleum, et al? Do I need to disable those? If so, can someone tell me how?

 

[Hubay]

Yeah, they're not in there, either.

I don't know if that's an issue, though. I'm not sure if DLC is handled the way mods are, it might not be game-breaking? I suppose you could just disable everthing except polynesia and korea, just to be safe.

 

[Txurce]

Off the top of my head, I don't think there'd be a need to disable anything. The key is to have the civs that are in the game.

What I am sure of is that you can't play Conquest, unless you sell each conquered capital to another civ, and end the game by conquering their capital.

The start seems interesting in that it's powerful, but requires all sorts of techs to improve everything.

 

[lindanealmck]

I restarted with the DLC enabled, seems to work fine. Doing much better, but not sure what will happen when China gets rolling, since they are my nearest neighbor. I built Stonehenge for a huge buffer zone, but I didn't get Great Wall or Himeji Castle. Went Honor (need 2 more) , Tradition (need 1 more) , Piety (done) so far - ready to research acoustics. Second in tech behind Sejong. Info Addict and Civ Willard are not included. Should be interesting.

 

[Hubay]

I managed to get stonehenge and great wall, but Washington stole himeji, and a couple of other key wonders, including PT. I'm amazed china hasn't attacked yet, but they seemed preoccupied with Korea right now.

America's cleaning up on everything expect wonders right now. they've got more techs and policies (they snagged the oracle, too). but I managed to get a few CS allies so I'm catching up again.

Got honor opener first (saw 3-4 barbs nearby and that really propelled me forward with culture), then went all tradition and piety. starting on patronage right now, and steel. Once I'm done I'll lightbulb gunpowder and start stockpiling janisseries for the inevitable war with china.

My big concern is money. I don't think I can maintain a good enough army for defense and keep CS in line long-term. I've mostly been focusing on getting great scientists and great engineers, but I think now I'll have to roll out a few great merchants. hopefully that will kill two birds with one stone.

 

[lindanealmck]

The combination of great wall and stonehenge will make it hard on the Chinese to get close enough with their Chokanu's. You can tear them apart with Vanguard or Horse units, plus you get paid for your kills. I started the Economics tree as well. I plan to go finish Honor, Tradition, Piety, Commerce, Enlightment and the Freedom tree. Plays fast since you have just 1 city.
I am trying to keep a cash reserve for the random opportunities. I hate it when the mayor handles it.

And I built Machu Pichu just for the cool mountain tile.

 

[kc_bandit]

The combination of great wall and stonehenge will make it hard on the Chinese to get close enough with their Chokanu's. You can tear them apart with Vanguard or Horse units, plus you get paid for your kills. I started the Economics tree as well. I plan to go finish Honor, Tradition, Piety, Commerce, Enlightment and the Freedom tree. Plays fast since you have just 1 city.
I am trying to keep a cash reserve for the random opportunities. I hate it when the mayor handles it.

And I built Machu Pichu just for the cool mountain tile.

Man this is a grind. Population 20 after 170 turns or so. I have all of the CS's allied, got Stonehenge, Great Lighthouse, Great Library, the Great Wall, Pichu for the Super Mountain, The Louve (but I had to beeline to get through astronomy, et al, to get there fast enough). Got a few other Wonders but can't remember right now.

Washington is just killing in this game. Almost triple my score, and I am in a solid second - lagging a few techs behind America and Korea.

To start off, I moved on top of the Wine next to the Mountain and settled on Turn 2. I built Scout, Monument, and then bought archers and Triremes. I opened with Honor and then the right side of Tradition, then back down the middle of Honor. The absurd number of Barbs around our starting location made Honor an easy choice.

Then the game started to shift very badly. Washington nabbed the Oracle the turn before I was going to get it - because I was greedy and went for the Great Wall first. Prior to the Oracle, I was tearing through most of the Wonders. Then Washington took every Wonder except for the Louve.

For policies, I finished out Piety and then went for Patronage.

Finally, I had had enough of Washington and slowly let our friendship die away. I built up a fleet of upgraded Frigates with lots of promotions form Barb killing (no SoTL because of the complete lack of iron in our city's radius). By the way, no iron, no horses, desert everywhere, no fish, no whales, no pearls - and a sliver of river to settle next to. Come on!

Anyway, back to Washington. Once I got Patronage finished, I built up my gold to buy off the remaining CS's before DOW against America. I sent in five Frigates and two embarked Knights. I was able to take Atlanta and Philadelphia - losing two Frigates (one by a 10 shot Crossbowman - seriously???). One or two of my CS's finally got their iron going and I got some SoTL's, but they were late to the fight.

So, Washington just offered me straight up peace - I declined. I noticed about a third of his Wonders just disappeared when I destroyed Philadelphia. I either want his Capital or a large portion of the 30k of gold and 380gpt he is enjoying. I have 8 policies left to start the Utopia Project and have a 4 or 5 policy lead. I have plenty of troops back home to fend off China - which is getting a little restless after I DOW'd Washington.

Korea has been a steadfast ally from the beginning. We just DOW's Alexander, but I am not putting much into that fight. I think I see the path to Victory ahead, but man these turns are a grind!!!

I am very curious if anyone else is having low population problems. I need so many more citizens to utilize the specialist slots, but it is really tough to grow.

 

[lindanealmck]

I finished with a social victory in 1630 (my second attempt, so it doesn't count). When I finished the Enlightenment tree, I had just finished Electricity - so I suddenly got Radio and Mass Media with my 2 free techs, had an Engineer, and made the Sydney Opera House in 2 turns which left me 1 policy to go (5 more turns).

I had a score of 1311.

All of my opponents remainded friendly while Sejong conquered China. Sejong had a huge tech lead, but it didn't matter. I had a large force both land and sea which proved to be an adequate deterrent.

Anyway, it was fun, although I did tire of chasing Barbarians.
Trees were Honor, Tradition, Piety, Freedom, Enlightenment and Commerce.
Happy hunting!

 

[Txurce]

I built next to the mountain and built Scout, Monument, Worker. Due to the many barbs, I also started with Honor. From there I switched to all of Tradition. My first three GW’s were Stonehenge, Great Library, and the Colossus. As a result I just missed the Oracle, then built the Hagia Sophia, which got me the Porcelain Tower.

Until that point I was spending all my gold on improvements while focusing on the GW’s. My first GA didn’t come until after the 100-turn mark, and I used it for a culture bomb (2 luxuries). (I built only three landmarks all game. I wound up with 7 luxuries to sell. Science picked up after the PT/NC/Oxford, but it was too late for the Sistine Chapel. I did get the Kremlin… my last GW.

I missed that there were only 5 civs, and spent too long hoarding a few luxuries for a better deal. I also expected to meet more CS. This was too bad, because I filled in most of Patronage before dipping into Piety, then filling out Freedom.

Some of you may have been aware that Korea is buggy: happiness boosts give it tech boosts. In my game I had the bad luck to have Korea grow bigger than China from the start. America also exploded. Greece was the runt of the litter. I had no army to speak of: just a knight, a frigate and a crossbow. On T189, when China moved a large number of troops into my territory. I paid Korea to DoW him. China immediately shifted out. I felt pretty smart for about one turn, when Korea decided to DoW me as well. He attacked with 5 Light Infantry, 2 artillery, and one helicopter. And he lost. By that I mean that I drove him out of my territory. On T212, he accepted my paying 2100g for peace. After that we eventually became friends, while he wiped out China, then attacked America on my bribe.

I had missed both Cristo and the Sydney Opera House by a lot, and now had literally nothing to build except units to give to CS, while inching up to three eventual landmarks. I had about 6 SP’s to go – with American perilously ahead of me – when the first UN vote that Korea instigated came up. I had about 3000g, and borrowed about 150g to put myself in position to win, as long as Korea wasn’t moving after me. They weren’t, so I won a diplomatic victory in T253.

 

[kc_bandit]

Okay. Done - and will never OCC again - at least not with the Ottomans. Man that is one boring Civ.

Score: 1,291 - ugh. Turn 236, Culture Victory. The ridiculous thing is it could have been 20 turns earlier easy if:

1) Washington hadn't stolen The Oracle one turn early.
2) Washington hadn't stolen Sydney Opera House - AFTER I bulbed a Great Engineer immediately upon gaining access to it. The funny thing is that I KNEW it was coming. I was like - DON'T YOU DO IT!! And Bammo - that sickening sound of doom between turns.

I went Tradition, Honor, Commerce, Piety, Patronage and Freedom.

If I had it to do all over again, I would have never gotten into Freedom. That was a waste - should have gone Enlightenment.

The turn after my post above Washington offered me 32,000 gold and I accepted.

With that amount of cash, I bought about 20 units, mostly Frigates and SoTLs. I also upgraded all of my crossbows and warriors (I know - LOL, can't upgrade until you have Iron) to Riflemen. I soon had the largest army of all Civs!! Woo hoo!

Then I picked on Alexander until he paid me off.

Next up was China with about 12 riflemen. My army size was too large and I was getting that warning about it. I ignored it and marched through Bejing and her other two cities - the CSs cleaned up the rest. With China gone, I backstabbed Korea because they were getting too big of a tech lead and they were starting to pick up Wonders. None of the AI were going for a Culture Victory - the most any of them had completed was two.

Anyway, I took one of Korea's big cities, and then wave after wave of Tanks, Artillery, Infantry and Light Infantry rained down on my troops. He also had 4 fighters. All of those units were WAY above my tech level. Fortunately, the CSs surrounded him and held him off. I thought Busan was going down, but the CSs decided to back away for whatever reason.

I started to retreat and Korea sued for peace - giving me their cash and a few luxuries. Then I just held on for the Culture Win. I ended up about ten techs behind Korea. Washington still had far and away the highest score.

It was sort of fun, but more of a grind. OCC is not for everyone I guess.

 

[Seek]

Turn 236, Culture Victory.

Me too! Though I did get the Oracle and SOH - I did almost the same trees, but seems I should have gone Honor for barb culture rather than Commerce (Freedom was worth it imo, but I did take it in conjunction with Enlightenment). It was a grind, I agree.

 

[lindanealmck]

I tried Sejong a couple of times. I see now why he gets a huge tech lead. Ever time I would garrison a city, another tech would be discovered! Soon, I would have a huge tech league (15 tech lead at king level)

A word of caution. If you have a big tech lead and a weak army, the AIs will attack you. And don't bother with things like universities or research agreements - totally unnecessary!

For now, I have disabled Korea.

 

[Seek]

Korea has had a science bug for the last few versions which Thal assures us will be fixed for v132, so go ahead and re-enable Korea when that comes out, lindanealmck!