Guess the New Civs

[Louis XXIV]

3: Being an important empire

I would change this to "Having significant impact or lasting influence." It doesn't require a unified state or else the Mayans would fail to qualify.

 

[PhilBowles]

Well,the problem with Khmer is the proximity with Siam,which is the similar reason why Mali won't come into G&K expansion . For Sumer,I think they had better chances to return when they released "Wonders of Ancient world" DLC,which didn't happen .
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I guess the devs' planning about this expansion was to reveal the "veteran civilizations(that had been in civ series before)" first,then reveal civilizations that have their first time in Civ series later . The main reason to sustain this is the fact that the first 5 civs were already veterans and one of the last 4 remaining civs which had been spoiled unintentionally(huns) is a new Civilization .

I'm not sure why you feel the Huns were "spoiled unintentionally" - they were in a publicly released screenshot, and it's been suggested that that was a mockup due to oddities with it. It was just done as an "Easter egg" - give the fans a lot of handout info, then something they can feel they worked out for themselves. I doubt it was ever intended to be a secret.

IMO There are only four qualifications for civilizationdom.

1: having a complex civilization (Maya)

2: Being a factor in a key event Huns and (hopefully Zulu)

3: Being an important empire

4: Being romanticized

With that I say The Khmer, Ethiopia, and Sumer

I would change this to "Having significant impact or lasting influence." It doesn't require a unified state or else the Mayans would fail to qualify.

As would the Greeks in the sense used in Civ, as classical Greece was likewise not unified. Likewise Carthage - it was just a city-state that's well-known simply for a long-running war with Rome; complex society (check), involved in an important event (check), romanticised (check), important empire - well...no. By the logic that makes Carthage a civ, so would Syracuse qualify.

I don't think either the Khmer or Ethiopia have been romanticised particularly; by contrast Siam was, and that only just got its turn in the spotlight.

One classical civ that seems to fit most or all of the above would be the Nabateans.

 

[Louis XXIV]

That's factually incorrect about Carthage. Lilybaeum and other cities in western Sicily were founded as military outposts to defend Carthage's maritime and mercantile empire. While some other cities were independent settlements initially, they had been substantially controlled by Carthage by the time of the Punic Wars (especially in Sardinia and North Africa). Between wars, Carthage directly settled Spain as well as conquered other cities. Treaties with Rome recognized cities with Carthage's sphere of influence. They were, for all intents and purposes, as much an Empire as most at the time. Certainly as much as the Athenian Empire (the Delian League).

 

[blackcatatonic]

so civ4 celts had an emphasis on france, then? gallic leader, gallic unit, capital in french gaul?

Yes - but all the elements were consistent, which was the main thing. They had Boudicca too, which didn't fit, but I didn't mind as much because there was an alternative leader.

They presumably have to have a capital, and it's going to be a settlement that's located in one or other Celtic or former Celtic country, so surely this would be true however they worked it?

Obviously. It's not the choice of the Scottish capital per se that troubles me - it's having a Scottish capital together with a Scottish unit, a Scottish-looking leader screen and an East Anglian leader.

We haven't really seen enough of the game to be sure of exactly how the Celts are being portrayed, but I am getting an overwhelmingly Scottish vibe from them, which doesn't fit with having Boudicca as the leader...

 

[Uberfrog]

It seems increasingly unlikely that Celtic in the islands had divided until the post-Roman period. Meaning, essentially, that Boudica spoke the same language as Irish or Scottish Celts. In fact, as Welsh is highly innovative (transformed through intense contact with Latin 100 to 400), Scottish Gaelic may be closer to the language Boudica spoke than Welsh.

That's a very interesting point, that I wasn't aware of, thanks! I did know that Welsh includes a lot of latin (ffenestr/fenestra - window) and even French (ysgol/école - school), but not that the Brythonic/Goidelic split may have happened post-Romans. Perhaps Gaelic would be more appropriate for Boudicca.

I am getting an overwhelmingly Scottish vibe from them, which doesn't fit with having Boudicca as the leader...

That's almost certainly due to her recognition more than anything else. I'd say she was probably the most well-known Celtic leader, more so even than Vercingetorix, at least in the UK. Scottish leaders are less-well known, even if you start taking them from the later Kingdom of Scotland (which I'd like to see represented, at least in giving the Celts a medieval or later unique unit to avoid a complete ancient/classical focus).

 

[apocalypse105]

Maybe its gilgamesh I mean he was in the ancient world scenario

 

[blackcatatonic]

That's almost certainly due to her recognition more than anything else. I'd say she was probably the most well-known Celtic leader, more so even than Vercingetorix, at least in the UK. Scottish leaders are less-well known, even if you start taking them from the later Kingdom of Scotland (which I'd like to see represented, at least in giving the Celts a medieval or later unique unit to avoid a complete ancient/classical focus).

Yeah, Boudicca is undeniably the most famous Celtic leader, so I guess it was inevitable that she would get picked. It would have been great to have a medieval Scottish Civ with Robert the Bruce or David I as leader, but I guess that's off the cards now. Oh well.

 

[Louis XXIV]

^ When you get to Robert the Bruce, it's clear you are no longer talking about the Celts but the Scots. In the Classical era, the lines were blurry enough that Scots were Celts, but I think things tended to separate after that.

Yes - but all the elements were consistent, which was the main thing. They had Boudicca too, which didn't fit, but I didn't mind as much because there was an alternative leader.

I think the goal is similar to the Polynesians. Since they were never a unified people, it's best to sample things from all over the Celtic world. I wouldn't read too much into the topography of her background. That's just someone from Baltimore trying to represent what he thinks Celtic Britain should look like.

Maybe its gilgamesh I mean he was in the ancient world scenario

I know we have Dido, so I'm beyond the point where I should complain about semi-mythological rulers of cities, but I still hope they abandon Gilgamesh. They abandoned Brennus and Ragnar. They should do the same for Gilgamesh and replace him with a ruler of the Third Dynasty of Ur.

 

[Guandao]

Sumerian is prolly way harder to write sentences for than Akkadian. It's an isolate (not related to any known language). Still, it can be done.
How about Gudea as leader (was he Sumerian or something else?) or maybe Ur-Nammu?

Boudicca's language is called British/Brythonic by linguist. I don't know how much influence Welsh has from Latin, but I still think it would be more accurate than a Goidelic language. It's likely she going to speak Scottish Gaelic or Irish Gaelic though and in a modern form too.

I still have no idea what Attila is going to speak. Hungarian????? I would like to hear what a Uralic language sounds like, though Hungarian is only distantly related to Finnish.

 

[fuzzatron717]

Gods and kings comes out june 19th yes but I still have to wait and that means so we only have a limited time to guess I stick to Bulgaria Zulu and Hittites. Bulgaria because it fits in the fall of rome Zulu 1 because it was one of few known great south african civ's and it was in the past civ's. and the hitties had a very large empire and I know nothing else about them all I know they made a lasting impact.

 

[awesome]

eannatum would be a pretty good pick for a sumerian leader. he's the stele of vultures guy.
you could also maybe use sargon the great, but i think he was actually akkadian and he'd probably end up looking a lot like darius or nebuchadnezzar.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Sumerian is prolly way harder to write sentences for than Akkadian. It's an isolate (not related to any known language). Still, it can be done.
How about Gudea as leader (was he Sumerian or something else?) or maybe Ur-Nammu?

I usually go with Ur-Nammu or Shulgi, since they are from Ur. Gudea is probably Sumerian, although I'm not sure where he was from. He ruled Lagash, though, so that works.

Sargon is famous. He concerns me because he's more or less an outsider to the Sumerian world (the southern cities). Akkad is essentially next to Babylon. He'd blur the line between the two too much.

I still have no idea what Attila is going to speak. Hungarian????? I would like to hear what a Uralic language sounds like, though Hungarian is only distantly related to Finnish.

I personally think he should speak Gothic since that was an official language of the Hunnic Court and is at least known. Hungarian is wrong.

 

[fuzzatron717]

I think Troy should be a new City state. Militatistic so it replaces Tyre which is being switched to mercantile, and if you think about it, Troy was one the first well known city states except for the greek city states.

 

[blackcatatonic]

^ When you get to Robert the Bruce, it's clear you are no longer talking about the Celts but the Scots. In the Classical era, the lines were blurry enough that Scots were Celts, but I think things tended to separate after that.

Indeed - which is why I was suggesting that a Scottish Civ ought to be medieval-focused. I see no reason why there shouldn't in theory be a Scottish Civ, an English Civ and a Celtic Civ, though it's obvious that the Celts as they will be introduced in G&K won't be able to co-exist with Scotland.

 

[Nyanko]

Brazil still needs more influence in this world, but I think has a decent shot

I think of all the modern civs people suggest, Canada, Australia, Indonesia, Brazil, Isreal; Brazil is perhaps the most worthy to be included. It was an empire, after all...

Canada suffers from a crowded North America, Israel is too controversial, Australia and Indonesia are each comparably young, despite filling out a unfilled portion of the map.

Tupi would be a good civ to add, I think if they don't add Brazil. If the Iroquois can make it in, why not the Tupi?

 

[GenjiKhan]

I think of all the modern civs people suggest, Canada, Australia, Indonesia, Brazil, Isreal; Brazil is perhaps the most worthy to be included. It was an empire, after all...

Canada suffers from a crowded North America, Israel is too controversial, Australia and Indonesia are each comparably young, despite filling out a unfilled portion of the map.

Indonesia isn't young,if you consider them as a descender from Majahapit empire . They seem a good choice of Civilization and despite their importance,they never have been represented in Civ series before .

Tupi would be a good civ to add, I think if they don't add Brazil. If the Iroquois can make it in, why not the Tupi?

Tupi would be a really bad choice,because unlike the North American native tribes,they were just a bunch of hundreds of tribes,who didn't leave nomadic style of life and neither found cities . And unlike Iroquois,they fought each other even before the Portugueses stepped in Brazil .

 

[Suppiluliuma 1]

With 9 new Civs, and we know the 5 below:
Byzantium
Carthage
Celts
Netherlands
Maya


Here are my gueses for the last 4
Hittites
Zulu
Ethiopia
Srivijaya

Here are additional others that would be nice, but probably unlikely.
Great Moravia
Magyars
Khmer
Manchu
Khazars
Israel
Philistines
Majapahit
Apache or Navaho

Well, aleast there are still so many to choose from, in other Civ Expansions.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

What about the Huns? We know Huns are in too.

 

[Suppiluliuma 1]

With 9 new Civs, and we know the 6 below:
Byzantium
Carthage
Celts
Netherlands
Maya
Huns


Here are my gueses for the last 4
Hittites
Zulu
Majapahit

Here are additional others that would be nice, but probably unlikely.
Great Moravia
Magyars
Khmer
Manchu
Khazars
Israel
Philistines
Srivijaya
Ethiopia
Apache or Navaho

Thanks, forgot about the Huns.
Made the necessary adjustment.

 

[awesome]

yeah, we know 6 now, including the huns. and even though the name indonesia is modern, most people base it on majapahit. the people who don't, base it on srivijaya. pretty much the only nod towards modern indonesia is the name.