Guided (Rocket) Missiles: A new paradigm

[Tekamthi]

make them expensive

won't this just exacerbate the problem of their undesirability?

what if we went the other way entirely -- make them cost nothing, if you have a city with the right requirements, they just auto-generate every x turns

 

[Stalker0]

won't this just exacerbate the problem of their undesirability?

So we know from the nuke model that there is a certain level of power that can make a consumable unit worth it (and if people don't think nukes are worth it, I highly recommend a game where you really try them out....I think most people who don't use nukes do it from thematic reasons but don't realize how good a tactical tool they are.

Would a non-nuke that could deal lots of damage in a small radius and pillage all tiles be good enough? I don't know, but there probably is a point somewhere in there that could work.000

what if we went the other way entirely -- make them cost nothing, if you have a city with the right requirements, they just auto-generate every x turns

This is an interesting idea, perhaps based on a building (like the military base) or maybe a national wonder (for some Tall vs Wide balance that prevent you from getting tons of missiles with a very wide empire).

Or is the auto generation just a facet of those late game units? Every X turns they spawn a missile in one of their silos? My immediate reaction is that just too much exponential scaling, 10 subs that now generate 10 free missiles just seems too good over time, so its probably better to be building based than unit. Although perhaps we could go the opposite idea.... instead of building units and then powering them up with missles....what if those units automatically came with their allotment of missiles, and then those once consumed are gone? (providing some encouragement to build more).

But yeah I could see this idea, and that would certainly make them a completely different niche from any other unit in the game right now.

 

[Stalker0]

I do think teh auto-generate missile idea would likely be the easiest to code. We really don't have to change anything about the missile per say (other than an adjustment to its cost and maybe stats), but functional the missiles works like it does now, its just how its built that changes.

 

[Tekamthi]

i would use em if they were just there anyway, though I dont often build them otherwise -- i'm not sure what the right requirement would be to have them auto-gen -- military base makes the most sense out of existing choices. Or maybe you could have it both mil base AND factory or something, if we wanted it to be thematic. I'm sure there are some balance things to work out though. One requirement i do feel pretty sure about though is that city should either be full HP, or at least in the green part of their health bar for any kind of auto-gen ability

maybe manufactory could also make 'em

 

[usadefcon1]

Just have the units loaded with them when they are first constructed.

 

[Tekamthi]

Just have the units loaded with them when they are first constructed.

here's a simple-to-code model:

unit starts either full or empty of missiles/rockets (as desired by majority of community)

at every turn start, IFF unit is full HP AND home city is full HP AND unit has free missile slots, unit gains one missile/rocket

missile/rocket dmg values adjusted to balance for increased usage

 

[azum4roll]

I think most people who don't use nukes do it from thematic reasons but don't realize how good a tactical tool they are.

They're only useful because they can't be reliably defended against. Missiles can be intercepted, so there's a counter.

And also because of this, any auto-generation idea shouldn't be accepted unless the interception model is changed. These missiles count as free air sweeps in the current model, so you're no longer limited to city/carrier slots to counter interception.

 

[usadefcon1]

missile/rocket dmg values adjusted to balance for increased usage

Could have the Bomb Shelter (or whatever it's called now) mitigate the damage.

 

[Tekamthi]

They're only useful because they can't be reliably defended against. Missiles can be intercepted, so there's a counter.

could bring back the SDI defense -- was in civ 1-4 afaik, civ 5 first to drop it

any auto-generation idea shouldn't be accepted unless the interception model is changed.

agreed -- can you work something into the interception rework proposal you're working on?

 

[azum4roll]

I think Rocket Missiles already have a niche if they can pillage unguarded tiles. Guided Missiles could have splash damage/pillage? Both don't obsolete.

 

[Revolutionist_8]

I personally really like the current mechanics, it feels fun and it gives you some options (snipe out certain units for example).

Although I increased their strength by about ~20%, so they're actually quite scary now.

 

[Stalker0]

They're only useful because they can't be reliably defended against. Missiles can be intercepted, so there's a counter.

nukes are absolutely interceptable

 

[CppMaster]

This seems to be a point of confusion so I'll note it and put it in the OP as well. The following units can carry missiles:

1) Attack Sub (Ranged - 1 missile)
2) Nuclear Sub (Ranged - 2 missile)
3) Missile Cruiser (Ranged - 3 missile)
4) Sensor Combat Ship (Melee - 3 missile)

GDR can't?

 

[Stalker0]

GDR can't?

they cannot

 

[azum4roll]

nukes are absolutely interceptable

I don't see how they can anywhere in the code. Did you see one blocked by SDS instead?

 

[Stalker0]

I don't see how they can anywhere in the code. Did you see one blocked by SDS instead?

I see nukes blocked by interception all the times, including my own if I’m not careful.

 

[azum4roll]

SDS blocking nukes is notified as an interception. It should be the only source of "nuke interception".

 

[Stalker0]

SDS blocking nukes is notified as an interception. It should be the only source of "nuke interception".

No I truly think its interception that blocks it.

 

[pineappledan]

missiles are bad and they should feel bad. The word literally means projectile. We have those in the game, they're called ranged attacks.

This is what I would do with Missiles: Remove them entirely and use their art asset husks as animations for an improved city attack (if possible).

Remove all missile units

New Building: Missile Silo
Available at Rocketry
Requires Arsenal
2250
10
+1 City Attack Range
+15% city attack damage
Changes city bombardment animation to the guided missile

Move Military Base to Atomic Theory

There, now you have guided missiles that people actually will use. They're a late game bonus that makes city strikes hit up to 5 away with red fort.

 

[Stalker0]

No I truly think its interception that blocks it.

I will note I was 100% WRONG on this. I have done a few tests, and confirmed a plane's intercept does not stop an atom bomb.