Gunship does NOT benefit from railroad, why?

[Palantir30]

They're a tank killer and super-pillager, very useful when used appropriately.

Just curious, the +100% to Armor bonus they get takes their strength from 20 to 40, making them equal to modern armor. They're the same tech-era as modern armor. So how does having equal strength make them "tank killers"?

 

[logical_psycho]

Yeah, gunships aren't worth the investment. I often just lost them to simple fortified riflemen. That makes no sense... an apache will shoot a hellfire missile with surgical precision up a rifleman's rectum without the rifleman even seeing where the missile comes from.

I don't mind that they can't be transported by trains, because in real life they don't move heli's by train. Maybe by airplane, but not by train.

 

[Dantius III]

Just curious, the +100% to Armor bonus they get takes their strength from 20 to 40, making them equal to modern armor. They're the same tech-era as modern armor. So how does having equal strength make them "tank killers"?

This is assuming you've upgraded all of your battle-hardened cavalry units to the gunship. They will more than likely be more experienced than any modern armor that is freshly built and with those bonuses they will win. Also, the gunship comes along with the tank, not modern armor... and they beat down tanks.

Yeah, gunships aren't worth the investment. I often just lost them to simple fortified riflemen.

They aren't for attacking cities!

 

[Ubiquitous]

If an AH-64D fought an M1A2 ... well, we all know the tank is toast. Yet, this game has them even in stats - why is this? Since when was a coaxial machine gun capable of taking out a gunship? Because surely people aren't thinking that those 120mm cannons will actually be able to hit a helo...

The Gunship as it is is massively underpowered. This will be changed in my personal version as no way should a gunship lose to a tank, modern armour, rifleman or anything ... SAM infantry maybe, Mec. Inf. yes ... but not the others.

 

[Mercade]

My suggestion for a mod :

- Make it able to cross a 2square ocean. Or make it able to cross ocean, but the final position must be on any land.
- Get the benefit from railroad, please.. for watever sake

The gunship is doing fine in the enemy territory with 4 movement point if i m not mistaken. 6 movement will be too high, equavalent to an aircraft !

Yeah, I second this. Move over sea, but end on land. Benefit from railroad and movement of 4 in enemy land is quite enough.

 

[onedreamer]

exactly. Im not sure why they made them so UNDERpowered, their pretty much useless, considering I can construct a tank at about the same rate, and infantry way quicker...

heh, you must be kidding man, I've never seen a tank surviving a gunship in Civ4. Plus the gunship can intercept tanks quite easily thanks to their no-penalty 4 movements (which definitely needs NO boost to 6). Even with the invention of modern tanks, gunships stand a good chance against them, they still have an advantage over movement, they can retreat, and they cost less. I prefer to loose a gunship to destroy/weaken a modern armor, than to loose a modern armor myself, which is the only other unit that can win itself.

 

[Ozymandous]

make them capable of staying withint 2 tiles of land maybe. Like the CTP fusion tank, which was a really cool unit.

Give them the ability to not cross ocean squares like the galley, that would simulate their being able to fly off shore a little but not a super long flight.

Although if they can't cross the ocean squares I am not sure how great that is since modern carriers do use them too.

 

[Ozymandous]

Personally I would like to do the following changes to the Gunship:

- Movement increased from 4 to 6.
- Strength increased from 20 to between Tank and Modern Armour.
- Ability to fly over coast.

As it is now I never use them, they are, well, useless.

I guess the 100% bonus they have vs. armor is useless too right?

 

[Ozymandous]

If an AH-64D fought an M1A2 ... well, we all know the tank is toast. Yet, this game has them even in stats - why is this? Since when was a coaxial machine gun capable of taking out a gunship? Because surely people aren't thinking that those 120mm cannons will actually be able to hit a helo...

The Gunship as it is is massively underpowered. This will be changed in my personal version as no way should a gunship lose to a tank, modern armour, rifleman or anything ... SAM infantry maybe, Mec. Inf. yes ... but not the others.

Actually, IIRC, the tracking systems on the M1A2 -could- theoretically track and shoot down a helo if the chopper is flying in such a way that the turret can keep up with it. And I don't mean shoot down with the machine guns either. The limitation in this case if the turret traverse and elevate speed, not the electronics of the tracking system.

 

[Pushead]

I'm in favor of the 'rebase' mission option!

Me too, this makes the most sense to me. I also agree with the fly over coast.

 

[Ubiquitous]

Actually, IIRC, the tracking systems on the M1A2 -could- theoretically track and shoot down a helo if the chopper is flying in such a way that the turret can keep up with it. And I don't mean shoot down with the machine guns either. The limitation in this case if the turret traverse and elevate speed, not the electronics of the tracking system.

When it happens in real life on a semi-regular basis then maybe I'll accept the dominance of the armour over the helo. Until then though, I'll take my chopper every time over the tank.

 

[Dantius III]

If an AH-64D fought an M1A2 ... well, we all know the tank is toast. Yet, this game has them even in stats - why is this? Since when was a coaxial machine gun capable of taking out a gunship? Because surely people aren't thinking that those 120mm cannons will actually be able to hit a helo...

You remember this is just a game and is not meant to reflect reality, right?

 

[Dantius III]

I don't see why people are complaining that gunships do not take out infantry in cities. Gunships can't even capture cities! Why are you attacking cities with a gunship?!

 

[kattana]

gunships rock...plain and simple

they can be airlifted from one city to anther via airports or trasported via transports...

and get 2 transports full of them, thats 8 total, and then drop them off into enemy lands and set them to auto-explore...

LOL..its like the biblical verson of the swarm of locusts upon the land...pillaging EVERYTHING in sight and killing targets of opportunity when they have the advantage automatically

basically..they can decimate an enemys land and bring him to his knees.

and all the while they are pillaging..they are bringing in needed cash too..

too funny

 

[zeeter]

Looking at this from a programming perspective, we want to allow gunships to have extra movement over rails in home territory, but still have normal movment within enemy territory. Probably too much to do. All units use basically the same movement logorhythms, with pluses and minuses here and there. However we're talking about more than a plus or minus here. It would require actual programming logic that separates it from other units.

 

[JakeCourtney]

They have to fly and have refuel. Maybe the Realism mod can someday correct this.

 

[Zurai]

Looking at this from a programming perspective, we want to allow gunships to have extra movement over rails in home territory, but still have normal movment within enemy territory. Probably too much to do. All units use basically the same movement logorhythms, with pluses and minuses here and there. However we're talking about more than a plus or minus here. It would require actual programming logic that separates it from other units.

Incorrect. All Mounted and Armored units (horses and tanks) have a promotion that gives them the same "all terrain move costs = 1" ability, yet they can still move over rails at 10/turn.

 

[MobBoss]

good point however... gunships are of a dynamically different shape than a tank. It would require quite a bit of time to make it fit unless you were to use a special rail car. But the rotos would hit everything as you traveled. Unless of course the rotors were foldable... in any case, while gunships lack travel in your lands, they benefit in enemy lands as the can strike and retreat back to a safe square quite easily. To be totally honest though, I never build them, just ugrade my cavalry if I've got em but I just don't seem to use the gunships much...

Uh. FYI, it does not take a special car at all...just a flatbed. Most of the rotors can be folded or if not, then easily removed. And, for your information, yes an attack chopper can fly faster than a train, but a train is more preferable for long distance hauling simply becuase of one issue: Maintenance. Attack helis have to be maintained constantly and that is hard to do over a long multi-stop haul. Not so when you send them by train...take off the rotor, shrink wrap the aircraft, put it on a flatbed and away you go.

As for the base arguement...yes, I agree that attack choppers need a rebase option as opposed to getting rail benefits. Makes more sense that they be treated more like airplanes than tanks.

 

[Ubiquitous]

You remember this is just a game and is not meant to reflect reality, right?

Looks like we have an other apologist here, moron. Of course I know it's a game and contary to what you say, the game is based on real life units otherwise you would find things like archers being stronger than cavalry; riflemen stronger than musketmen etc.

 

[Dantius III]

and get 2 transports full of them, thats 8 total, and then drop them off into enemy lands and set them to auto-explore...

Are you sure that they pillage when you set them to auto-explore?