Gunship does NOT benefit from railroad, why?

[UlvenXXI]

I am not so concerned over that Gunships dose not benefits fome railroads I simply use ther air lift capability to move them over a longer distant.

But they need to be able to fly over at least two coastal tiles but they have to return to the shore line within the next turn or it while be lost.

 

[Samson]

- Ability to fly over coast.

The problem with this, if they can end their turn on the coast, is that they would be invunerable to land units. There is not in this version any units that can move onto but not finish on a tile (like the galleys in Civ 3).

 

[Draconian]

Ofc it would be nice if gunships could use railroads. But they shouldn't work like other units on railroads, 40 movement come one.... 10 sounds better.

And another thing about railroads: why are tanks transported twice as fast as infantry on trains?!

 

[Carewolf]

Generally railroad movement should be redone such that all unit can go the same 10 or 20 moves on rails. Why should tanks on rails be faster than an infantry on rail?

 

[DrPep]

And another thing about railroads: why are tanks transported twice as fast as infantry on trains?!

No, tanks, too, move only ten squares on railroad. Civiliopedia lies.

 

[Sexton]

I think amphibious is a must, but I don't think the rebase is a good idea.

If you put in rebase, then in MP people WILL spam gunships, and they WILL swarm you with them as soon as you cross the border into their territory. Tanks will become completely useless as an offensive weapon because players will have that many gunships that they'll be able to tear through your meatshield and not care about the losses.

So you still do the old stack of doom style of play. If gunships harras your armors then by all means protect them with mech infantry (or infantry, 1:1 odds)

 

[Thalassicus]

It's not quite 1:1 odds: gunships survive half of all lost battles. So there's a 50% chance an infantry will die defending against a gunship, but only a 25% chance the gunship will die. The infantry has twice the chance of dying; I'd call that 2:1 odds as far as loss ratios go

 

[Sexton]

It's not quite 1:1 odds: gunships survive half of all lost battles. So there's a 50% chance an infantry will die defending against a gunship, but only a 25% chance the gunship will die. The infantry has twice the chance of dying; I'd call that 2:1 odds as far as loss ratios go

That's right, I didn't consider the withdrawal chance But it still won't make tanks "useless"

 

[JFLNYC]

I read the whole bloody thread!

The question, IMHO, is not so much whether gunships should benefit from railroad, but rather whether they should, in effect, be penalized when other units can use the rails. Without getting into other refinements, here's a suggestion: Give them 8 movement points, BUT go back to the old CivII concept of having to return to base. That way, in your own territory, they can move between cities within 8 squares of each other but, when attacking in enemy territory, they only get 4 moves in and 4 out. This solution has the added benefit of not leaving them sitting ducks for the likes of macemen (one of whom killed one of my gunships with his trusty mace!).

(And, yes, let them fly over coasts and lakes!)

 

[MeteorPunch]

Give them 8 movement points, BUT go back to the old CivII concept of having to return to base. That way, in your own territory, they can move between cities within 8 squares of each other but, when attacking in enemy territory, they only get 4 moves in and 4 out. This solution has the added benefit of not leaving them sitting ducks for the likes of macemen (one of whom killed one of my gunships with his trusty mace!).

But we need them in a offensive stack as a counter to tanks. Having them stay in cities would make them too useless.

 

[Kissamies]

The old return to base model was removed for a reason. It's not fun having to count your moves and worry about having enough fuel to return if you attack here. The flight model introduced in Civ3 is so much better.

 

[Thalassicus]

No, tanks, too, move only ten squares on railroad. Civiliopedia lies.

He's right! I didn't even realize it either until now, and I tested it ingame. Units have their movement speed multiplied by 2 (3 with Engineering) on roads, but all units move 10 tiles per turn on railroads, regardless of their movement speed. So an ironic side-effect of allowing gunships to use transportation networks is that they would actually be able to move 12 squares on roads, but only 10 squares on railroads.

They really should have pointed out this change in game mechanics (upon reaching railroads) in one of the loading tips.

 

[Kissamies]

Well, I think the Gunships should benefit from rails but not roads. I believe they can be set separately even in the XML files. Setting the road multiplier to 1.5 only for gunships would work too, if doable.

 

[Carewolf]

So you still do the old stack of doom style of play. If gunships harras your armors then by all means protect them with mech infantry (or infantry, 1:1 odds)

Unfortunately that doesn't work with the way the computer chooses defending units. If you have modern tanks and mech inf, the tanks will defend because they have higher strength against the gunship, even if the mech. inf would have a higher chance of winning.

I've lost _many_ tanks, because the tanks are defending the stack every time a gunship attacks.

Gunship + Old Tank + Mech. inf works well as combined arms.

Modern tanks might as well work completely alone as long as they have air-cover.

 

[karadoc]

So an ironic side-effect of allowing gunships to use transportation networks is that they would actually be able to move 12 squares on roads, but only 10 squares on railroads.

I thought of this as well, but maybe it should just use the maximum of the two. ie. 12 squares on railroads because roads give 12 squares.
But on the other hand, I don't think gunships should benifit from roads at all. Only from railroads. They fly; so roads wouldn't help them.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Interesting...
I did just a test when there was a mech. inf and moder armor in one group and two gunships in 2nd group.

When gunships attacked it was mech. infantry that defended not tanks (32 strenght, while tanks would be just 20).

Still curious thing happend in next battle.
Mech. Inf. was on 27 of strenght, and when Gunshop attacked Armor defended! Kinda suprised since Mech. Inf. should have higher chance of taking them out.

Or maybe AI was looking at First Strikes Tanks have in the mix?

 

[ozza000]

Is it even possible with xml to allow gunships to cross coastal squares, but just not finish on them squares.

 

[Thalassicus]

Interesting...
I did just a test when there was a mech. inf and moder armor in one group and two gunships in 2nd group.

When gunships attacked it was mech. infantry that defended not tanks (32 strenght, while tanks would be just 20).

Still curious thing happend in next battle.
Mech. Inf. was on 27 of strenght, and when Gunshop attacked Armor defended! Kinda suprised since Mech. Inf. should have higher chance of taking them out.

Or maybe AI was looking at First Strikes Tanks have in the mix?

Injuries affect combat effectiveness quadratically: a unit at 50% strength, for example, has half health and deals half damage per round of combat. So the tank likely had better odds

 

[Viperace]

The more I investigate on gunship, the more peculiar I found this unit to be :\

Gunship cannot rebase !! Just found that yesterday... It is a pain in the a$$ to mobilize my gunship from one side of the continent to the other side. Every infantry, warrior, pikemen who are utilizing the airlift or railroad move faster than gunship.. piff %#&@($

However.. I am beginning to feel that Gunship that can use railroad AND withdraw is abit overpower though...

 

[Thalassicus]

Gunship cannot rebase !! Just found that yesterday... It is a pain in the a$$ to mobilize my gunship from one side of the continent to the other side. Every infantry, warrior, pikemen who are utilizing the airlift or railroad move faster than gunship.. piff %#&@($

Gunships can be airlifted like ground units (requires an airport), just not rebased like Fighters or Bombers. After all, helicoptors aren't as good at long-range flight as fixed-wing aircraft