h1.GOTM practice

Hi guys not sure what I was thinking must have been a brain blip :crazyeye:

The battle with the Germans went well didn't seem to get much resistance but maybe I was lucky. One worry is Montys got at least two cities to the south of Cumae and I personally feel it could be a bad idea to attack on two fronts.

We need to somehow get courts into our cities to decrease our maintenance costs and there is a German city on the south island just ripe for plucking at sometime.

Don't mind people been critical it's the reason I'm playing. I never managed to get into Civ 3 as I found it over complicated but so far Civ 4 has been a breath of fresh air reminds me of the original Civ which I really enjoyed.

Any help we can give to each other will hopefully improve the way we play and the whole SG thing becomes a learning experience for not just the players but anyone else who happens to read the thread.

Thanks for letting me join in I'm looking forward to seeing how this game develops.
 
Here it goes...

0) 1100AD – Fredrick won’t talk, so I guess no peace this turn. Change Civics to Vassalage and Serfdom. Viva la Revolution. Move some Praetorians to Ivory, so I can hopefully take out their war elephant production next turn. Move Cat up to next hill to join praetorian advance, this reveals a new German city. Looks like this will be my next target. The foreign advisor says Fredrick is willing to trade Theocracy and Code of Laws, so I switch to Bee line for Music (if we can get it first we get a free great artist, which we can use to culture bomb) and hope to pick them up during peace negotiations.
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1) 1110AD – Take a guess on what the workers are doing, make cottages mostly. Also, I notice that both sugars have plantations on them. Now if we want to trade one of the sugars for something then this is cool, but if we put a cottage on one it will grow to a town and make +4 commerce instead of +3 with the plantation, then with printing press it will make +5, and with free speech +7 and with universal suffrage +1 hammer as well. Just food for thought, I’ll leave as a plantation for now. Pillage Ivory, and move towards Stuttgart. Also move Trireme to mainland for pick up of units at later date, sending Caravel around the world to see if we can get circumnavigation first. I upgrade one of our horse archers with +1 visibility and set him on our forward hill top, hopefully he will spy any incoming enemy. Take research down to 50% :( to get in the black, Fredrick still refuses to talk (guess he needs a little more motivation)

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(We aren't the popular kid apparently)

2) 1120AD – Ferrum: Colossus finishes -> start on caravel to either meet other caravel in opposite direction or clean up the riff-raff off our coast. Antium: Longbow man -> Knight. Teo: Temple->Knight. Hindu missionary reaches Frankfurt and spreads Hinduism. Stack advances on Stuttgart Explorer is exploring island. Fredrick will finally speak with me, but I’m on a hill outside Stuttgart so I’m not going for peace just yet. Also, send a couple Praetorians down to Teno to meet the Trireme, hopefully that German island only has one defender.
3) 1130AD – Literature comes in, begin on Music. Rome: Monastery -> Great Library. Gemini Montes: Granary -> Forge Cumae: Hindu Monastery-> Hindu Missionary. Begin attack on Stuttgart. Cat is destroyed by longbow man, but causes collateral damage, both longbow man and spearman are down to a little over 50%, first 2 praetorians take them out, Stuttgart falls to the Romans and is Auto-razed (to bad it looked like a good city). Explorer finds Dortmund on island, stupid AI founded it 1 tile off coast, with a fish resource. Grrrr. Try and get some techs from Fredrick for peace, he’s not having it :( darn guess I should have changed research. I debate over the next decision for quite awhile, but offer 10 turns of peace for all 80 of Fredric’s gold and an extra 3g per turn. He takes it, so at least I can go back to 60% and still be in the black. Also, I don’t think there is a real good target of the Germans, where as, Monte has a nice fat capitol right off our border than I can spy on because its already Hindu. He only has archers, but he has 5 of them. I plan to build 1 or 2 cats and with the Praetorians and the knights that are coming in a few turns go hit Monte and take out his capitol.

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4) 1140AD – Start moving the troops to Monte’s border. Nothing else happens.

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(New Cannon fodder located)

5) 1150AD – Ferrum: Caravel->Aqueduct (at health limit). Cumae: Hindu Missionary -> Cat. Saxon: Library->Lighthouse. Hindu Missionary spreads Hinduism to Cologne. Sending Caravels in opposite directions.
6) 1160AD – Cumae: Cat -> Cat, Teno: Market->Library. Pulling island strike force to help with Aztec insugance.
7) 1170AD – Not much to report, marshalling of the troops.
8) 1180AD – Teo: Knight ->Grocer. Cumae: Cat->Hindu Temple. Move troops in position to declare war and move in next turn, but… Fredrick declares war on Monte. Glad I decided on war with Monte otherwise the Germans would have taken Monte’s good cities at our front door. I also, spot some new land to our North east with one of the caravels

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(Land Ho!)

9) 1190 – Music comes in and I start on code of laws so we can get court houses (sorry about the delay, I really thought we would get it in peace negotiations). Antium: Knight->Hindu Temple (this should make 3 so we can build a Mandir) I suggest a grocer next because it is one away from health limit. Looking at our cities, we probably should/should’ve made the hanging gardens to help with our lack of health resources, though I didn’t think it would be a problem considering we get +2 health in all cities to begin with (go figure). Frankfurt: Lighthouse->Granary. Homer is born in Rome, Move him to Cologne, hopefully we can get the ivory in our territory with a culture bomb. Declare war on Monte and move the troops forward. I have everyone in one big SoD because it doesn’t look like Monte has and Cats.
10) 1200 – Rome: Great Library -> Aqueduct (going to go for a late run at the hanging gardens). Teno: Library->Granary. Incas declare war on the Germans.
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.(New piece of land looks like prime realestate)

Thoughts:
Things went ok during my turns, I got 1 city some gold and lined us up outside Monte's capitol in mass. Our defences are a little weak. If a big stack comes towards a city it will probably fall. I suggest we take the capitol and Tlaxcala just south of it with the stack that is there and build a few longbow man to reinforce our defences. It was real nice that the Incas decided to declare war on the Germans, it made me a lot less worried of a sneak attack from the Germans once they made peace with the Aztecs. For now I think we should avoid (as much as possible) having cultural borders with anyone other than the Germans. Everyone is just looking for an excuse to go after us, and since it looks like all the land is pretty much gone already, something will have to give. I'd like to see what the Chinese are up to after we circumnavigate since they are currently in second place and we have open borders with them. See if they have any islands or continents to expand into. If not they will have a hard time staying in second place without going to war (probably with Incas).
 
wow, guess that means i'm up already? that was quick. will play tomorow (or actualy since its after midnight here, that would be "later today")
 
i realy should find and install that logging mod you guys have. will definetly do in time for my next turn....

0. 1200ad - dont change anything, look around. press enter.
1. 1210ad - code of laws finishes. not switching to caste sistem, never liked it. start civil service
- ferum finishes aquaduct. starting catapult cause there arent many left as far as i can tell.
- cumae finishes whatever it was building (sorry forgot) starts another catapult.
-saxon finishes lighthouse, start granary cause it dont have one, will finish one turn before growing.
-i've never culture bombed before, and i dont like this cologne city we have so close to cumae, but the elephants would be nice to take, so hit the great work button. "borders expand" message comes up, but they dont actualy shift. only then notice that we're trying to shift berlin's culture border, so guess that's why it dont shift. no elefants the easy way for us.
- bombard thatelolko's defences to 24% and start attacking units. the 3 "city attack" praet, only takes 1 point damage, kills archer1. the antiarcher praet, takes more damage, but kills archer still. knight and another praet finish off the assault, take city with no casualties.
- explorer/circum navigator caravel sees a barb galley, hope we win.

2. 1220ad - barb galley loses to our caravel.
- cumae finishes catapult, start courthouse cause its cheap.
- tenochtitlan finishes granary, start courthouse cause this city is eating our money.
- move some troops, heal some troops, move some workers.

3. 1230ad - cologne finishes granary, starts hindu monastary.
- move more units down

4. 1240ad - ferrum finishes catapult, starts harbor (its breaking even on health, needs more to grow)
- frederick has 3 units next to tlaxcala (cat, chariot and crossbowman), and it has 3 archer defenders, as i only have 3 units that can attack (knights and horse archer), decide to hold of damaging the city till next turn when my cats and praetorians can make sure to take it. hope fredy wont get lucky and get a 3-0 victory.

5. 1250ad - antium finishes hindu temple starts grocer (getting low on health reserve)
- cumae finishes courthouse,
- tenotitlan finishes courthouse,
- another dam great artist in rome. what is up with these guys.
- cats had crapy chances of winning, so bombed, knights and praets took taxcala with no losses. AZTEK CIV Destroyed. one down, 5 to go.
 

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6. 1260ad - finish civil service, start paper.
-saxon finishes granary, set to emphesize food, and start forge.

7. 1270ad - ferrum finishes harbor, starts grocer (still on verge of health issues)
- tlatelolco comes out of rebelion, starts granary (a bit of playing with the workers, gets granary to come 1 turn before growth)
- tenotchilan and cumae both finish missionaries (i'm an idiot, started them just so i could look around before deciding what to build in 1250, forgot to change to something usefull), start longbowman and crosbowman now.
- great artist in cologne again, proly should culture bomb again just to make first one worth it (actualy get the elephant), i mean how much culture could berlin have? i mean ye, fredy is creative, but berlin has no wonders, so he cant have THAT much, can he? unless he's got great artist super citizens in there ofcourse.....
anyway, blowing second great artist on the elephant gamble, hopefully we get it and fredy dont fight us with elephant units when we go to war with him later.... nope still nothing. this is rediculus. i knew i was right to never culture bomb before this, its sucks.

8. 1280ad - rome finishes hanging gardens, starts taoist monastary for cheap 10% science boost.
- tlaxcata comes out of rebelion, starts lighhouse to be able to grow at all (stagnant now)

9. 1290ad - rome finishes taoist monastary starts hindu monk, gotta spread that state religeon.
cumae finishes longbow, starts hindu monk.

10. 1300ad - circumnavigated the globe.
- tenotchilan finishes crosbow, starts worker boat we'll need for fish by taxlacan

end.....

- big stack on german border ready to go in if that's what we're doing next though i didnt improve defence much, sorry.
- paper will finish this turn.
- took out all but one jungle on our interiors. got water to most of the farmed resourses.

that great artist culture bomb thing was my one big disappointment in my turn. talk about sucky way to waste two great people. i'm sorry about that, if i'd used culture bombs before, i might have known that it wouldnt work and we could have atleast had these guys to use for golden ages or something.
 
here's a picture of that island to the east of us in the middle of the ocean. i made the caravel make sure it wasnt a whole continent, but left its shore exploration unfinished to go get the +1 sea movement thing.
 

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dam, just noticed, we're still giving the chinese our only wheat sourse. we now have quite a few resourses he doesnt, so canceling that deal and trading him something else for the fur would be a realy good thingto do. i should proly just do that, resave, and repost the save, but its almost midnight, and i gotta go to sleep.
 
Oops, took a pain pill yesterday (just had knee surgery earlier this week) and was out for the afternoon, so I'm playing this morning ...
 
Quick poll - which do you prefer for the use of a great scientist?
a. Hold onto until we get another great person to get a golden age.
b. Create academy in Ferrum, another very good science city.
c. (Almost) discover Education. (gives us ability to build university, Oxford)
d. Other
 
i say b or c. how many turns or research does it save? if its more then 5, then i'd say do the education thing, if its less, i'd vote for sci academy.
 
Preturn:
- Tour the F keys. We're 1st in everything that matters. We're researching Paper - not sure what our current research strategy is. Are we targeting Replaceable Parts? Economics? Why not Gunpowder or Military Tradition? After Paper (1 turn left) I'm going to target Military Tradition, primarily for the West Point wonder. And speaking of wonders, I notice we have not tried to construct either the National Epic or Heroic Epic. I think Cumae is ideally suited for a military city, and am going to construct the Heroic Epic there and eventually hope to construct West Point there as well. And Rome is probably the best place to construct the National Epic. We should also think about finishing enough courthouses to build the Forbidden Palace. In short, my focus will be to build up our infrastructure so that we can rule this world with an iron fist, not book-larnin'. I create an open borders pact with Huayna Capac and Freddy (for now) and voila! all of a sudden we're +4/turn in our budget. For instance, now Rome has trade routes of +2 with Macchu Picchu and Olantaytambo - I'm pretty sure they were +1 internal trade routes before. I consider cancelling our wheat-for-fur deal with Qin, but I think we're limited more by happiness than health at this point. For instance, in Antium, our only health-limited city, we're building a grocer, which will eventually give us +4 health due to our having bananas, spices, sugar, and wine. I don't see anything which will easily solve our happiness issues as mucn as simply having the fur. Now we *could* trade something else to Qin for the fur, but I'm not sure what he'd go for, so that's a risk. But if we were to do that, we *could* trade him pigs, rice, or sheep, as he doesn't have any of those, and we have two rice. Imagine that, trader Trebonius, sellin' rice to the Chinese. :) Freddie, Toku, and Genghis are all annoyed with us, so we need to be prepared for an attack. We have no navy on our north coast, and Ferrum is especially vulnerable to a blockade, so we really need something here.
- The great artist gambit was probably not a great idea, true, but we're *this* close from stealing the ivory from the Germans (53% German) so we should just build some culture in Cologne and wait.
- I switch Ferrum from grocer to hindu temple, as we're currently at the happiness limit, but are still 1 away from the health limit.
- We're training three missionaries? We only have one city without Hinduism. Are these for future conquests?? At any rate, they're close to completion, so I'll leave them for now.
- Tlaxcala is undefended, so send a warrior from Tenochtitlan to eventually be upgraded to a spearman (or more). Never mind that actually, as you have to be in the city of a barracks to be upgraded, so turn the warrior around and send the praetorian. We'll build a longbowman soon to send here. Incidentally, Tenochtitlan is building a workboat, probably for the fish near Tlaxcala, but Tlaxcala is producing no culture to expand its borders, so that boat is a waste until then.
- Tlatelolco is building a granary, but has a large food surplus, and is only 3 away from the happiness limit. Interesting, it also has an academy. :) We should build science here! Switch to library. (Also will need a courthouse)
- Teotihuacan is building a grocer, but probably doesn't really need one yet. Will start courthouse after it finishes (1 turn left).
Turn 1 (1310)
- Discover Paper, begin Philosophy on track to Military Tradition (will try to trade for Philosophy).
- Rome hindu missionary -> National Epic
- Cumae hindu missionary -> Heroic Epic
- Tenochitlan work boat -> longbowman
- Send workboat to sleep in Tlaxcala
(Interesting note: Qin is protecting Tlaxcala with a warrior! I will have to send him a New Year's Card this year. :) )
- Cologne is food challenged, but we have civil service, so we can spread irrigation. Send workers to build farm S of sugar canes so we can eventually farm the jungle south of Cologne.
- I trade Music to Qin for Theology. Freddie still won't trade me philosophy. What are the problems with having open borders with someone? I have 9 turns still on open borders with Freddie. What happens if we cancel in order to extort philosophy?
- Keep big stack of military nearish to Tlatelolco as that is our weakest area of defense.
- Send missionary to Tlaxcala.
- Start sending caravel to reexplore SW coast of continent.
- Question: how do we have a caravel in Japanese waters without either open borders or being at war??
- Send second missionary to explore/convert in Chinese lands.
Turn 2 (1320)
- Frankfurt granary -> barracks This is a production city, so I'd like some experienced troops.
- Upgrade warrior to spearman
- We're now at +11 gold/turn. 70% science would put us at -15, so I leave us here for now.
Turn 3 (1330)
- Tenochtitlan longbowman -> caravel We need a coastal navy! Great scientist Alhazen born in Ferrum.
- Send longbowman to Tlaxcala
- Caravels reveal large army by Toku. We should get him to attack someone. :)
- Spread hinduism in Tlaxcala
- Send a team of workers to start spreading irrigation towards Antium
- Tokugawa will give me 4 gold/turn for sugar. Huayna Capac will give me 4/turn for copper. Freddie will give me 3/turn for gold. Genghis will give me 4/turn for rice. And Qin will give me 1/turn for gold. I don't think any of these will cause us much problems, so I make them. This puts us at +19/turn, so I up the science to 70% at -7/turn.
- The great scientist can give us almost all of education. I'm very tempted by this, but we'd have to use an additional turn of research to get there. After polling quickly and doing some math approximation, I think that education gives us the biggest bang for the buck, so I use him this way and I slip Education in the front of our research queue.
Turn 4 (1340)
- Genghis comes "requesting" guilds. He's annoyed with us, and I don't care if he wants to attack. He's on our list already. :)
- We discover Education and enter the rennaissance. Proceed with remainder of philosophy.
- Tlaxcala builds lighthouse, but needs culture for the fishies, so start library.
- Huayna is sending a settler to the SE island. That's cool, not much land there.
- Frankfurt is going to struggle for food always. Build more farms there.
Turn 5 (1350)
- Cumae heroic epic -> knight
- Rome national epic -> notre dame
- Ferrum hindu temple -> grocer. Ferrum is now at happiness and health limit. Set governor to avoid growth.
- Worker begins chopping forest outside radius of Frankfurt.
- Missionary ventures into Chinese lands
- Longbowman arrives in Tlaxcala, takes city garrison II and fortifies
- I decide to chop a forest at Rome, since health isn't a problem and we could use some farms to really pump the population up here.
Turn 6 (1360)
- We discover philosophy and begin nationalism
- Teotihuacan courthouse -> maceman
- Tenochtitlan caravel -> knight
- Mongols found Islam
- Strange culture borders here ???
 

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- Send workboat to fish and change production to granary
Turn 7 (1370)
- Antium grocer -> university
- Cumae knight -> maceman
- Frankfurt barracks -> caravel
Turn 8 (1380)
- We're close to culturally capturing Germany's ivory. It's at 50% German and I saw it actually flicker over to us briefly. Next turn maybe?
- Scout out china briefly and then spread Hinduism in Beijing.
- Antium is at happiness max, so set governor to avoid growth and emphasize production. We want to build Oxford here, if at all possible, so I'll focus on that before growth.
Turn 9 (1390)
- Whee, we capture ivory! Expect Germany to not be too happy with this. Forces seem to be gathering at Essen.
 

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- Cumae maceman -> catapult
Turn 10 (1400)
- Ferrum grocer -> courthouse. Turn off avoid growth. It's crying out for a university, so that will come soon, too, probably after a market for more happy-happy.
- Cumae catapult -> war elephant! :)
- Tenochtitlan knight -> caravel
- Gemini Montes forge -> courthouse (we're still 3 courthouses from being able to build forbidden palace)
- Cologne hindu monastery -> courthouse
- turned off governor in Antium since ivory gave us more happy
- turned off governor in saxon

To next person: there may be one or two combat units in transit to Cologne, which is my primary "northern" rally point. We are close to being ready for next major offensive, and we're close to being more focused on building units than buildings, in which case we should probably switch from Organized Religion to Theocracy. Oh, and it also looks like Tokugawa is close to building a city W of Tlaxcala. They're too far for a big battle, but we should be prepared for them to get angrier.
 
Our status. We've made some definite growth in my turnset. Incas have lost some steam.
 

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Wow, you guys are quick, sorry been afk all weekend, Christmas shopping, lights, tree, bring kid to santa, yada yada yada. Haven't even had time to read the write ups. I'll catch up at work :D
 
MadDogTrebonius said:
To next person: there may be one or two combat units in transit to Cologne, which is my primary "northern" rally point. We are close to being ready for next major offensive, and we're close to being more focused on building units than buildings, in which case we should probably switch from Organized Religion to Theocracy. Oh, and it also looks like Tokugawa is close to building a city W of Tlaxcala. They're too far for a big battle, but we should be prepared for them to get angrier.

Got it. Hope to play tonight. Not sure about the wonky culture border you noted, but the point about our caravel being in Japanesse waters is due to the fact they can freely enter other civs territory without Open Borders/War. Quite handy for exploring. Also, I don't think you have to be in a city with a barracks to upgrade as per CivIII; I think any city will do.
 
We seem to be following a trend of infrastructure rebuilding followed by war. As you noted things get a little wonky when you go to war, its easy to focus on the war effort and just build whatever in the cities without looking at them very close. Thanks for pointing out all the how's and why's of what you changed.
 
Civgeek said:
Also, I don't think you have to be in a city with a barracks to upgrade as per CivIII; I think any city will do.
i'm almost certain that the requirement is the unit being within our cultural borders. i dont think it actualy has to be in a city even.
 
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