h1.GOTM practice

[hendu]

The more I think about it, the more I think that it will take a while to find and prepare for settling on another *continent* (the island is easier). So prepping for a *small* war with Freddie sounds good. If we can take a city and get a couple techs in exchange for a peace treaty, that would be excellent. All the time, we're exploring, and if we find a continent, be prepared to jump on it.

Sounds good to me, build up army, pick off peripheral cities instead of building settlers. Get a tech or 2 for peace, sounds like a winnable strategy. How about going for Munich? Confusion was founded there, it might makes sense to try and snag it and switch religions, we'd make a boat load of cash and friends. Not sure how possible that is though. Also, the religious situation in this games is pretty diverse, I have yet to have a game this crowded or evenly mixed religions.

 

[PeeDub]

I'd say we take Frankfurt, first. Munich, as nice as it sounds, would put us right next to Genghis with no buffer. And then I'd say Köln (Cologne) next, which we could either keep or raze, I care not. Threaten another city (Berlin?) and sue for peace. We make Freddie concentrate on military for a while, and we gain some tech and real estate.

 

[Civgeek]

Mea Culpa! I think I did one turn too many fellow senators.

Turn 150 (800 AD)
Civgeek: Taking a roll call of the empire reveals most people are happy and healthy. Our scientists are busy researching Optics and we are 3 or more techs up on everybody except Qin (China). See no reason to change govts or religion at the moment, so onwards we go .....
Civgeek: Oddly the guild of Forgers has taken hold in all our cities; they seem to be building them everywhere! However, the army is a little weak, 6 Praets, 2 Warr, 1 HoAr, 9 Arch (mostly on city defense) and only 2 Cats. Will definitely need to build this up once forges are finished.
Rome finishes: Horse Archer
Hinduism has spread: Antium

Turn 151 (820 AD)
Civgeek: Bede says we are the most powerful, followed by Genghis and Toku; Fredrick is #4.
Civgeek: Move our scientist to Antium
Rome begins: Catapult
Rome begins: Catapult
Rome begins: Praetorian
Rome begins: Praetorian
Civgeek: Rome has finished a Horse Archer; queue up 2 cats and 2 Praets.
Civgeek: Throughout my turn I moved workers to improve tiles and finish road network, concentrating on getting roads to “the German front” and hooking-up a few resources we had missed.

Turn 152 (840 AD)
Civgeek: Saxony comes out of rebellion; Fredrick still sending his galley and settler south.
Saxon begins: Library
Civgeek: Set Saxony to Library since we will be chopping forest to get spices.
Civgeek: Notice we don't have second gold hooked-up yet.
Civgeek: Send one of the garrison archers from Rome to relieve the Praet in Saxony.
Rome finishes: Catapult
Teotihuacan finishes: Forge
Cumae finishes: Forge
Tenochtitlan finishes: Forge

Turn 153 (860 AD)
Civgeek: Three forges arrive altogether; I tell you, those Forgers are in cahoots. Time to build an army.
Teotihuacan begins: Praetorian
Teotihuacan begins: Praetorian
Cumae begins: Praetorian
Cumae begins: Catapult
Tenochtitlan begins: Catapult
Tenochtitlan begins: Horse Archer
Civgeek: Scientist arrives in Antium; builds academy.
Antium finishes: Academy

Lookie ma, der’s learnin to be had!

Civgeek: Looks like there is some good lands on island to the south; but where to get a settler? We secretly place Roman stowaways on the German galley heading south and start a covert "Romans get free wine with dinner; let's defect" campaign.
Rome grows: 10
Rome finishes: Catapult
Ferrum finishes: Forge
Cumae's borders expand
Judaism has spread: Tlaxcala (Aztec Empire)

Turn 154 (880 AD)
Civgeek: Huayna Capac asks us for OB; refuse.
Ferrum begins: Hindu Missionary
Civgeek: Start missionary in Ferrum before military to spread religion to our last heathen city.
Civgeek: 2nd gold hooked-up, but shopping around nobody will offer much, so I leave it accumulating in the treasury for future trade.
Antium grows: 11
Cumae finishes: Praetorian
Gemini Montes grows: 2
Judaism has spread: Gemini Montes

Turn 155 (900 AD)
Ferrum begins: Settler
Civgeek: Ferrum nearing health limit, so switch it to build a settler for island to the south.
Rome finishes: Praetorian
Tenochtitlan finishes: Catapult

Turn 156 (920 AD)
Civgeek: Decide to recall Praet to Saxony; our stowaways reveal Fredrick only has one Archer with his settler, probably better to let him land, settle then capture his town from him. The "Free wine for German defectors" campaign seems to be going well.
Civgeek: Also recall our lone galley since it will arrive back at Saxony when settler is finished.
Civgeek: Bring incense online; our people are very happy.
Teotihuacan grows: 7
Teotihuacan finishes: Praetorian
Cumae grows: 7

Turn 157 (940 AD)
Tech learned: Optics
Rome finishes: Praetorian
Antium finishes: Forge
Cumae finishes: Catapult
Tenochtitlan grows: 9

Turn 158 (960 AD)
Research begun: Feudalism
Research begun: Guilds
Civgeek: Optics researched; decide to start the road to Guilds as Knights will be a nice complement to our Praets and grocers will really help health due to our numerous food resources.
Rome begins: Catapult
Rome begins: Praetorian
Civgeek: Rome looks pretty happy and healthy, so start another cat/praet build
Cumae begins: Walls
Civgeek: Start walls in Cumae; doubt it will be attacked, but we do have stone and it will allow for a smaller garrison.
Antium begins: Library
Civgeek: Ooops; didn't realize Antium was going gung ho on a coliseum; switch immediately to a library and apologize profusely to the members of the Academy who no doubt were starting to wonder why the hell they settled in this illiterate back water!
Rome finishes: Catapult
Antium grows: 12
Tenochtitlan finishes: Horse Archer
Saxon grows: 2

Turn 159 (980 AD)
Tenochtitlan begins: Caravel
Civgeek: Have Teno start our first caravel
Tech learned: Feudalism
Civgeek: Talk to Huayna Capac; he suggest we stop trading with his bitter enemy Frederick. Shortly HC, shortly! He will trade us Feudalism +10 gold for Machinery; Done.
Cumae finishes: Walls

Turn 160 (1000 AD)
Cumae begins: Longbowman

Civgeek: OK status; the glorious Roman army is now poised along the German border. The OOB consists of 9 Praets, 2 Horse and 7 Cats, with 9 Archers scattered around on city defense and 1 more Praet on the eastern peninsular waiting to go beat German skulls on the southern island. There are also a couple of warriors we could upgrade if we wanted to. Here’s the situation to discuss the opening invasion. Both Frankfurt and Cologne look very vulnerable and our legions can be at their door steps on turn 1. There are also some nice strong German serfs just waiting to become Roman slaves.

Civgeek: Here’s the rest of our world:

North:

South

South Island

 

[Methos]

Mea Culpa! I think I did one turn too many fellow senators.

lurker's comment: Nope, recall that the first turn you play is the pass off turn, thereby considered turn 0. So that turn doesn't count towards your 10 turns.

You can also look at it as you started in the year 800 AD and ended your turnset in 1000 AD. Very round numbers. Good game you all!

 

[PeeDub]

Why did you not take OB with Huayna? I believe that allows trade with his cities, and we're not really trying to keep him out of our lands. What do you see as the downside?

 

[Civgeek]

Why did you not take OB with Huayna? I believe that allows trade with his cities, and we're not really trying to keep him out of our lands. What do you see as the downside?

Probably should have in hindsight, but suspect we can get it from him again no problem. Not sure what I was thinking.

 

[hendu]

Civgeek, nice write up, and setup (wish I was next to crush the heathen Germans) Definately take cologne and Frankfurt. If everything goes well sign for peace and turn towards Monty and for a quick strike at Tlateloco. which would set us up to take the Germans southern 2 cities later and keep Monty from rebuilding.

 

[PeeDub]

Oh, and by the way, nice pics! I don't even need to open the game to see how it's all goin' down!

 

[PeeDub]

Probably should have in hindsight, but suspect we can get it from him again no problem. Not sure what I was thinking.

No worries. Just trying to see what others are thinking. I also wonder if we might have agreed to stop trading with Freddie. We'd get a positive relationship note with Huayna (I think?) and nothing negative that'll be worse than the war we're about to unleash with the Germans. What exactly would we lose?

 

[PeeDub]

Anyone heard from psychoboy? Is it about time for a skip?

 

[hendu]

Anyone heard from psychoboy? Is it about time for a skip?

48 hour rule, Hyfrydle is up! (Roster has been edited)

 

[Civgeek]

Quick reminder; I'm away on business this week (5th - 9th) with no access to Civ (laptop wont handle it) so skip my next slot (hopefully just miss one; will be back home next weekend). Viva Roma!

 

[Hyfrydle]

Hi Guys won't be able to play till tomorrow night hope this isn't a problem.

 

[PeeDub]

No, this is fine. The "official" SG courtesy is to post within 24 hours a "got it" when you know it's your turn and you're ready to play, and then to complete and post your turn within 48 hours of that. However, in almost all cases, letting people know how things are progressing is good if those deadlines are going to be tight. Though, if you're going to have trouble getting your turn done and up within the next 2-3 days, you should probably tell others to skip you.

 

[hendu]

No, this is fine. The "official" SG courtesy is to post within 24 hours a "got it" when you know it's your turn and you're ready to play, and then to complete and post your turn within 48 hours of that. However, in almost all cases, letting people know how things are progressing is good if those deadlines are going to be tight. Though, if you're going to have trouble getting your turn done and up within the next 2-3 days, you should probably tell others to skip you.

What he said

 

[Hyfrydle]

Here are my turns:

Turn 0 (1000 AD)
Hyfrydle: After a quick overview my aim this turn is to take some German cities.
Hyfrydle: Attacking the Germans will upset the Chinese who are in second place at the moment. But there empire is a good distance to the E so we should be ok.
Rome grows: 11
Rome finishes: Praetorian
Ferrum finishes: Settler
Teotihuacan finishes: Praetorian
Saxon's borders expand

Turn 1 (1010 AD)
Rome begins: Market
Hyfrydle: Started work on a Market in Rome so we can top up the coffers will complete in 5 turns.
Teotihuacan begins: Longbowman
Hyfrydle: Start work on a Longbowman in Teotihuacan for some extra defense in case things go pear shaped.
Hyfrydle: Move Praetorian from Teotihuacan towards Cumae.
Hyfrydle: Move Horse archers to the W into the German lands and uncover War Elephants and Swordmen will declare when we are back in safety.
Hyfrydle: Move worker to build a mine to the N of Cumae.
Hyfrydle: Catapults and Praets are in position on the borders of Cologne and Frankfurt.
Hyfrydle: Decide to build a cottage NW of Gemini.
Hyfrydle: Move Galley S towards the island need to explore.
Hyfrydle: Fortify Praets in Saxon.
Hyfrydle: Move Praets in Rome to the W as a backup force.
Hyfrydle: We have very high upkeep costs need to get Courthouses as soon as possible.
Ferrum finishes: Hindu Missionary
Cumae finishes: Longbowman
Tenochtitlan finishes: Caravel
Judaism has spread: Nara (Japanese Empire)

Turn 2 (1020 AD)
Hyfrydle: Monty asks us to cancel all deals with the Germans I decline it would mess our plans up slightly and the deals will be cancelled soon enough
Cumae begins: Market
Hyfrydle: Start Market in Cumae
Tenochtitlan begins: Lighthouse
Hyfrydle: Build Lighthouse in Tenochtitlan to improve seabased resources.
Ferrum begins: The Colossus
Hyfrydle: Trying for Colossus in Ferrum will complete in 9 turns.
Hyfrydle: Move Hindu missionary to Gemini to get the state religion activated.
Hyfrydle: Move Horse Archers back within our borders.
Hyfrydle: Choose city garrison and fortify Longbowmen in Cumae.
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison I
Hyfrydle: move Galley further S
Hyfrydle: Declare War on Germany and begin the battle at Frankfurt.
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): German Worker
Hyfrydle: Take some German workers hostage.
Hyfrydle: Start building road towards Frankfurt.
Hyfrydle: Our popularity has dropped with everyone they seem to have considered Frederick as a friend.
Hyfrydle: Build a workshop S of Gemini.
Ferrum grows: 13
Antium's borders expand
Antium finishes: Library

Turn 3 (1030 AD)
Hyfrydle: The battle of Frankfurt begins with barrage of catapult fire.
Hyfrydle: Reducing Frankfurt defense to 8% we are attacking from the hills to the SE.
Hyfrydle: The Praets bide there time.
Hyfrydle: The second group to the E of Cologne begin there onslaught.
Hyfrydle: Reduce Cologne to 22%
Hyfrydle: The Galley to the S continues skirting the coast of the southern island.
Hyfrydle: Horse Archers destroy a German plantation.
Hyfrydle: Praets in Cumae move to join the attack on Cologne.
Tenochtitlan finishes: Lighthouse
Saxon grows: 3

Turn 4 (1040 AD)
Tenochtitlan begins: Hindu Monastery
Hyfrydle: Complete Lighthouse in Tenochtitlan and start on a Hindu Monastery. This will complete in 3 turns.
Hyfrydle: Still no sign of any German retaliation.
Hyfrydle: Continue attack on Cologne defenses now reduced to 4%!!!
Hyfrydle: Found a tribal village on the SE corner of the south island.
Hyfrydle: Three Catapults reduce Frankfurt to 0% defense.
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Hyfrydle: Promote remaining Catapult to +20% collateral and attack.
Hyfrydle: Catapult takes damage but survives.
Hyfrydle: Decide to wait till we do more damage before the Praets attack.
Teotihuacan finishes: Longbowman

Turn 5 (1050 AD)
Hyfrydle: We have enemy near Cumae and Tenochitlan.
Teotihuacan begins: Walls
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison I
Hyfrydle: Cologne is reduced to 0%.
Hyfrydle: The Germans have moved a lone Crossbow unit to the W of Cumae.
Hyfrydle: There is an empty German Galley just S of Teotihuacan.
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult loses to: German Archer (0.15/3)
Catapult defeats (3.10/5): German Spearman
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): German Archer
Taoism has spread: Cologne
Captured Cologne (Frederick)
Hyfrydle: We have taken Cologne!!!
Horse Archer defeats (0.96/6): German Crossbowman
Hyfrydle: Horse Archer take out the Crossbowman but is injured move into Cumae to heal.
Hyfrydle: Notice a troop of Axeman and Chariot approaching through the jungle to the SW of Cumae. Move Praet's to intercept.
Hinduism has spread: Gemini Montes
Hyfrydle: Move injured Catapult back within borders to safety.
Hyfrydle: Cologne will be in revolt for 3 turns.
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult loses to: German Longbowman (3.12/6)
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult loses to: German Longbowman (2.46/6)
Praetorian promoted: City Raider II
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): German Longbowman
Praetorian promoted: City Raider I
Praetorian promoted: City Raider I
Praetorian promoted: City Raider I
Praetorian defeats (6.80/8): German Longbowman
Praetorian promoted: City Raider II
Praetorian defeats (5.36/8): German Spearman
Taoism has spread: Frankfurt
Captured Frankfurt (Frederick)
Hyfrydle: Frankfurt falls but taking it reveals War Elephants to the N of the city.
Rome finishes: Market
Teotihuacan grows: 8
Teotihuacan finishes: Walls
Cumae grows: 8

Turn 6 (1060 AD)
Rome begins: Hindu Temple
Hyfrydle: Start Hidu temple in Rome.
Teotihuacan begins: Hindu Temple
Hyfrydle: German War Elephants are heading towards Rome which is only protected bya lone Archer.
Rome begins: Spearman
Hyfrydle: Start work on a Spearman to combat the mounted unit.
Cumae begins: Spearman
Praetorian promoted: Woodsman I
Horse Archer defeats (6.00/6): German Axeman
Horse Archer promoted: Flanking I
Praetorian defeats (2.00/8): German Chariot
Hyfrydle: Use Catapults as lookouts and start moving a group of Praet to take out the War elephant unit.
Rome finishes: Spearman
Antium finishes: Colosseum
Tenochtitlan finishes: Hindu Monastery
Gemini Montes grows: 3
Saxon grows: 4

Turn 7 (1070 AD)
Rome begins: Hindu Monastery
Antium begins: Longbowman
Tenochtitlan begins: Explorer
Hyfrydle: Start on an Eplorer in Tenochitlan so we can better explore the S island.
Rome begins: Longbowman
Hyfrydle: Move Spearmen NW from Rome towards the War Elephants.
Hyfrydle: The Germans seem quiet maybe a bit too quiet.
Cumae finishes: Spearman
Tenochtitlan grows: 10
Gemini Montes finishes: Barracks

Turn 8 (1080 AD)
Hyfrydle: Enemy spotted near Saxon and Cologne.
Gemini Montes begins: Granary
Hyfrydle: Need to get Hinduism into the captured cities as soon as possible to increase the culture.
Cologne begins: Granary
Frankfurt begins: Lighthouse
Hyfrydle: Germany is trying to take Cologne back we have 2 War Elephants a Catapult and a Chariot on the borders.
Catapult loses to: German War Elephant (4.40/8)
Catapult promoted: Barrage II
Catapult defeats (1.35/5): German War Elephant
Hyfrydle: Fortify Cologne with 5 Praets hope it's enough.
Hyfrydle: Moving Spearmen from Cumae to Cologne.
Spearman loses to: German War Elephant (0.40/8)
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): German War Elephant
Hyfrydle: Start building Sugar plantation to the SE of Cumae.
Rome grows: 12
Rome finishes: Longbowman
Tenochtitlan finishes: Explorer
Praetorian defeats (6.88/8): German Catapult
Catapult loses to: German War Elephant (6.16/8)
Catapult loses to: German Chariot (3.04/4)

Turn 9 (1090 AD)
Rome begins: Hindu Missionary
Hyfrydle: Start Hindu missionary in Rome.
Tenochtitlan begins: Market
Hyfrydle: Move Explorer onboard Caravel towards the S island.
Praetorian defeats (6.80/8): German Chariot
Spearman defeats (4.00/4): German War Elephant
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison I
Hyfrydle: Fortify Rome with a Longbowman.
Hyfrydle: The Germans have settled on the S island!!!!
Tech learned: Guilds
Rome finishes: Hindu Missionary
Antium grows: 13
Cumae finishes: Market
Horse Archer loses to: German Swordsman (1.68/6)

Turn 10 (1100 AD)
Research begun: Code of Laws
Rome begins: Hindu Monastery
Cumae begins: Hindu Monastery
Hyfrydle: We now have 5 million souls.
Hyfrydle: Moving Missionary towards Frankfurt.
Hyfrydle: Our Explorer steps onto the southern island.

My turns went well I think. Managed to take Frankfurt and cologne with little resistance and we are now well positioned to continue westwards deeper into German territory. Or maybe we should get rid of Monty. A war on two fronts could be difficult though.

The screenshot of the south island has the tribal village marked with a purple arrow.

I'm really enjoying this game and my turns took just under 2 hours as I said before this form of playing really makes you think.

 

[hendu]

Got it, hopefully I can play tonight, gonna try the log mod. Glad you were able to take those 2 cities, I didn't realize the Germans had long bowman yet, definately made it more challenging. I have one question, you said

Turn 2 (1020 AD)
Hyfrydle: Monty asks us to cancel all deals with the Germans I decline it would mess our plans up slightly and the deals will be cancelled soon enough ...Hyfrydle: Declare War on Germany and begin the battle at Frankfurt.

You refused to cancel deals, but then declared war the same turn. What did you mean it would mess our plans up slightly. I can't word that so it doesn't sound critical, but I'm really trying to get insight when someone does something different than I would have done. To me that's why SG games make you so much better.

 

[hendu]

I downloaded it and couldn't resist loading it up at work. I'd like to get some input before beginning my turns.

1. Should we continue the fight?
2. Should we attack Monte?
3. Should we try and bring in Monte to fight against the germans?

Depending on what we want to do I want to change civics. To Vassalage if we continue to fight so we get to promote twice on new units, and serfdom regardless.

Looking at it, I really really really want to take Munich, but I think it would be a bad idea in the long run. If we continue the fight we might look at getting Monte to join on our side, but if that ivory next to cologne is the Germans only source of Ivory then we can build knights and run over him pretty easy until he can build his own knights. Also, I see 2 irons for Germany 1 between Berlin and cologne, easy for us to knock out and the other one near Essen. If we continue fighting the Germans then I think we should take out his iron and take Essen and then either go for Berlin or Hamburg. Either way is going a long hard fight and leave us very stretched out (and vulnerable). Give me your thoughts, I really don't want to over extend ourselves especially since we are running in the red even at 60%. .

 

[PeeDub]

Got it, hopefully I can play tonight, gonna try the log mod. Glad you were able to take those 2 cities, I didn't realize the Germans had long bowman yet, definately made it more challenging. I have one question, you said



You refused to cancel deals, but then declared war the same turn. What did you mean it would mess our plans up slightly. I can't word that so it doesn't sound critical, but I'm really trying to get insight when someone does something different than I would have done. To me that's why SG games make you so much better.

I had the same thought. Did you (Hyfrydle) think that cancelling deals was a declaration of war? (It's not) Also, I think that the reason to have these SG's is to be critical. Obviously, you don't want to be a jerk about it, but it's really a good mechanism to learn things, and I invite people to be critical about my play as well. Discussion = good.

Re: the log mod. I think it's only good to refresh your memory about your turns. The most important thing to note is why you did certain things. Storytelling is also nice, but not as important as reasoning.

As to your last questions: I think we should see what we can get for peace with Freddie. If we can't get anything good, I think we press him a little and maybe pick off a nice city site that isn't directly connected to Genghis. That is, unless we want to go the domination or conquest routes. If we want to go conquest, then we want to press our advantage *while we have it*. And we *don't* want to fall behind in tech, otherwise conquest will take forever. One advantage of being organized is that we can run expensive civics that will benefit our military, so using those would be a plus. Overall, I'm not sure we're strong enough to just war it out from here on out, so some peace would be nice to work on some infra and science, but I think we do want to focus on military.

I'm on pain meds, so let me know if that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

[PeeDub]

Incidentally, do we still have the goal of finding another continent?? Seems we should continue that way on some level, but having all civs on the same continent makes conquest easier.