Hagia Sophia Better Than Expected

[TheMeInTeam]

Isn't this like saying praetorians are useless and referring to an always-peace game as proof?

Yes, and prats *are* useless in always peace .

Pretty much every choice is going to be tempered by settings to a degree. The navy SEAL is much better than the prat too...if you start in an era where the former are obsoleted already.

Sophia and even serfdom become more attractive if you start in eras where they're available near the start of the game, before you'd have otherwise built enough workers to make them useless by the time they're available. Not everything has to be balanced for one settings group.

 

[Ataxerxes]

For me, the big problem with Hagia Sofia is it obsoletes so fast. I never thought of it being slightly more valuable for India but it is. If I have Theology I'm going to concentrate on the AP, however, and start building temples and monasteries.

 

[iggymnrr]

I guess so, looking at iggy's times there. Whoah! 2150 BC? With 40-50 workers?!?

I've got a game going now on a large chieftain marathon map. Perpetrated the Hagia at 2050 BC. Popped a few settlers, over conquered and over REXed myself into a deep hole. But it's 1000 BC motoring through chemistry. 38ish cities, over 100 workers with 38ish more queued up. Can't tell yet if its a BC launch yet or not. If so it will be the first chieftain game to do so. Current record for map size is 1414 BC. That will be shattered senseless despite a few mistakes.

 

[Um the Muse]

Didn't you say that you launched c. 400 BC in your OP? I've never played Settler mode, but that still seems incredible. Have you tried playing with an early serfdom as well? I've always thought that people disparage that civic when, in fact, it's fairly decent. Maybe it's because of the differences between Marathon and Normal speeds, though.

I imagine that the early vassalage could come in handy, too, considering how many cities you have. You must've been close to a domination win, right?

 

[MarigoldRan]

Actually, this might be a general principle:

ALL Wonders are better on Marathon.

 

[iggymnrr]

Didn't you say that you launched c. 400 BC in your OP? I've never played Settler mode, but that still seems incredible. Have you tried playing with an early serfdom as well? I've always thought that people disparage that civic when, in fact, it's fairly decent. Maybe it's because of the differences between Marathon and Normal speeds, though.

I imagine that the early vassalage could come in handy, too, considering how many cities you have. You must've been close to a domination win, right?

I must be going bonkers. I can't even place serfdom in the civics chart. Worn out from managing some 150+ workers. No, haven't used serfdom much. Vassalage doesn't get used much at low levels.

Chieftain was a bit tricky to crack at the start, but the strat seems to work pretty good. I should mention the idea came to me playing civ v. That version gets to be boring after a bit. The idea was to pair the Hagia with Darius. (civ v lends itself to this kind of thing somewhat.) Hits his traits well on a highlands. (Probably standard size to huge.) Anyways I played my chieftain game to 400 BC and Apollo is being constructed. Looks like a BC launch. Taking a break. The strat may work at warlord level. Not sure yet. Not about to start another game anytime soon though.

 

[Um the Muse]

I must be going bonkers. I can't even place serfdom in the civics chart. Worn out from managing some 150+ workers. No, haven't used serfdom much. Vassalage doesn't get used much at low levels.

Vassalage doesn't get used much at any level, afaik . It's the civic below slavery and above Caste, iirc. It does the same thing as the HS and it's available with Feudalism, which you can probably oracle easily enough.

 

[iggymnrr]

It's the civic below slavery and above Caste, iirc. It does the same thing as the HS and it's available with Feudalism, which you can probably oracle easily enough.

Thanks. That explains why serfdom does not spring up as an idea. It competes with another civic. Feudalism in this strategy occurs when the tech path is set to feudalism-> GUILDS->banking. The idea is to be using CASTE workshops so hills can be windmilled up, riverside first. (Financial riverside windmills are nice even a bit early.) Then its basically replaceable parts->levees->electricity->factories and out--somewhere in that sequence figuring out pacifism/Taj/SP.

 

[obsolete]

I would not get into the habbit of building this PoS wonder. Too many reasons to mention...

One that's over-looked by the majority is that the AI already has massive speed-cheats on higher levels. If they suck hammers into this wonder, it is to little or no gain to them since they already chop down forests in a single turn on deity, so what's the point? When the AI is doing something wrong, it's best to keep letting it go down the wrong path.

 

[iggymnrr]

I would not get into the habbit of building this PoS wonder. Too many reasons to mention...

Hehe. I just finished my large map chieftain game with a 100 BC launch. I think the Hagia puts a huge map chieftain game in the BC win range.

 

[Um the Muse]

I would not get into the habbit of building this PoS wonder. Too many reasons to mention...

One that's over-looked by the majority is that the AI already has massive speed-cheats on higher levels. If they suck hammers into this wonder, it is to little or no gain to them since they already chop down forests in a single turn on deity, so what's the point? When the AI is doing something wrong, it's best to keep letting it go down the wrong path.

Obsolete, not advocating wonders? What has the world come to? Just messing with you. Iggy's apparently trying to get an HoF game in on Mara and Settler.

It *is* interesting to note the difference between the two extremes, though. Where does that tile improvement bonus come from? I mean, could the wonder help me on my Mara Monarch games? The AI seems to do a terrible job improving their lands, but maybe this is enough of a boost for them....

 

[iggymnrr]

It *is* interesting to note the difference between the two extremes, though. Where does that tile improvement bonus come from? I mean, could the wonder help me on my Mara Monarch games? The AI seems to do a terrible job improving their lands, but maybe this is enough of a boost for them....

I don't know about monarch level. Speed is in getting to theo is necessary as is speed in killing off a couple AI. Some hut luck is necessary. But with this wonder incorporated into into the start. I'd ballpark that at least 1 in 150 maps (highlands) can produce a BC launch on a large or huge map at settler, perhaps even chieftain too. Furthermore, of these 150 maps, I have maybe toyed around with 15-20 of them using mapfinder. That is an astonishing speed finding playable maps.