Hammurabi Deity Isolation

[drewisfat]

GLh + ORG = there are no commerce drains, so go heavy on settlers.

 

[Gwaja]

@Henrik75

Spoiler :

Oh yeah that's right you already revealed all the other AI... Of course, that is where the real ugly monster shows its face. Hence why I wanted to share the map. Thankfully, no Mansa or any other seriously hardcore techers on this map, if that is of any relief.

@drewisfat

Oops yeah... forgot to address "knowing and not knowing isolation" factor in considering the Great Lighthouse. It seemed as though there are more interests in isolation games lately, so I figured I would spoil that part a bit to draw a bit of interest.

 

[antimony]

GLh + ORG = there are no commerce drains, so go heavy on settlers.

I guess I should be more specific. What do you settle and work before reaching Masonry?

 

[drewisfat]

I don't settle anything prior to masonry, rolling settler OF into the wonder. Ofc there's more efficient ways to play but I try to minimize gambling on wonder timing. Also settling too early south could be dangerous with barbs. I'm mostly focused on commerce max til masonry and then hammer max. If you did settle earlier sailing would still make your first city profitable regardless

 

[Henrik75]

@Gwaja

Spoiler :

i'd take the mansa lovefest over big 15 city monsters with vassals tbh. you can fight people like willem and mansa from an era behind if they're only at 8 cities and dont have vassals/friends. Current game im posting on yt is probably a good example

 

[Henrik75]

Here's my playthrough.

Spoiler :

No promises I finish the map I had to step away from game for a week after ep 2. This is how Lain burnt himself out with cancer maps like this. Spamming hard deity maps that enforce textbook style gameplay is super draining which is why I jump to immortal frequently for a vacation.

 

[Gwaja]

Spoiler :

LOL@ YouTube comments.

Yes, I have doctored maps in the past. Barbarian maps have all been clearly doctored, as well as some silly scenarios I created. The past Wang Kon game that Lain played was CLEARLY labeled as "doctored." The joke maps I shared with @Fippy in the past were clearly a personal joke as well. And that is the end of it all.

It is funny how someone can outright accuse me of trolling @Henrik75 or any others into making them miserable on purpose. Yes, I DID freakin' move the starting warrior away from what seemed like totally pointless position. I DO know how to work with World Builder enough to know that I can go into "Reveal Tile" mode.

Right, there is no metal. Right, the island is not big and full of jungles. Not my freakin' fault that I rolled a map like this that made me scratchy head on Immortal. Thought maybe the much more skilled players can really show how it is done, as there is no way someone like me with zero patience to plan carefully and think things through thoroughly can achieve victory on Deity.

I certainly don't want @Henrik75 to be burned out and quit playing. At some point, it will happen, but considering how @TheMeInTeam , AZ, Lain, and others who have uploaded Civ4 videos in the past have all seemed to have been burned out, I'd hate to see it happen again.

Just wanted to make it clear I have no need nor desire to purposely troll someone into making them feel miserable while playing a video game.

 

[Henrik75]

Nah I dont think you are trolling, the starting warrior is a good move so its a bit more interesting to make speculations. The OG charlie jungle imm iso NTT map is still more dire than this, but this is deity so its more punishing with tech dates. Never seen no metal in isolation but its possible, at least we have luxury resources and

Spoiler :

iron, gold and more stuff on very vacant nearby islands.

I honestly enjoyed the isolation aspect, but after meeting other continent,

Spoiler :

im not sure if i can be bothered finishing it as i have done whats in my control, and monsters with vassals are cancer to deal with.

Cheers

I appreciate you posting the map to seek higher level players to teach you a thing or two, that's a great way to improve. I hope you can learn something from my vod, its probably the best and most patient i'll ever play XD

 

[Gwaja]

@Henrik75

My Deity win rate is somewhere in range of about 25% or so. I keep losing interest in this game and then come back and play a bit, only to repeat the process over again, hence why my comfort level has never been above Immortal. It is good to see players like you, even to this day, that faithfully play on Deity and win at a consistent rate. Always happy to watch and learn. Much thanks and appreciated.

Spoiler :

One of the hardest Immortal maps I have ever played and it was a drag for me. My game had JC with 2 vassals and GK with 2 vassals as well. 2 huge monsters.

I personally gave this map a try on Deity myself with the map knowledge and it went nowhere.

I won't blame you on quitting. After all, it is such a drag anyway.

I wonder though... knowing the map, with the understanding that winning on Deity relies too heavily on luck factors beyond player control... perhaps a planned AP victory may not be so bad. Of course, at this point in your game though, it is too late for that. For this map, I wouldn't call it "cheesy" like in most "normal" situations.

 

[Henrik75]

Spoiler :

I think a good rifle draft + cannon attack can knock out someone without rifles pretty quickly, even with a vassal, just have to take enough ground before they get rifling. If you can successfully take them out and just get a few extra strong cities then get communism you are probably good and can tank spam your way to victory. Albeit it's just grindy and tedious and I have done this many times already so it's not particularly inspiring for me, and relies heavily on the RNG roll of do they go rifling or not. If they do super early you're probably screwed, if they avoid it you can grind your way to a win. The fact the entire outcome of the game may depend on this is a bit lame.

 

[Gwaja]

@Henrik75

Spoiler :

Agreed. Too much reliance on dice roll of whether AI, in particular, Bismarck, avoids Rifling early or not. He looks like the best target. JC seems out of control, but right now not much we can do.

DeGaulle and Boudica got screwed with bad starting positions just like us, while JC, GK, and BK got much better starts with more good land to expand.

Also, that crappy island with the barbarian galley infestation... had it been reachable with Sailing, with better tiles and resources, maybe this game would have been much more winnable. It would have given us more incentive to go for the Great Lighthouse, as well as more land and cities to compete.

RNG god didn't seem to be very favorable... when I saw the galleon lose 98% odds to a barbarian galley... ouch.

Still, I think it was a great showcase of empire management and expansion and agree wholeheartedly that playing this over and over could help improve our game in that aspect.

Many sincere thanks for even attempting this. Looking forward to your next game.

 

[Fippy]

I wanted to try GLH + org city spam on a poor island, but it was stolen on turn ~50 (just shortly after SH was built and TGW wasn't yet).
Slap in the face

 

[drewisfat]

Ooof that's awful Fippy. And here I was wondering if I built mine too early and I should have gambled with other investments first lol. But yeah demographics aren't favorable, it's only really the obvious play if you know this is a super tough isolated map.
I haven't given up on it yet but I also haven't played since. Real life getting in the way

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Once again, this map is a waste of time. Henrik played it so I should show appreciation. What would I do if someone pointed a gun to my head and made me do it?

I would still go for the Oracle, there's almost no opportunity cost for failing. GLH has a high opportunity cost. Not going for wonders is also valid because we have good starting techs.

I would Farmville for diplomatic victory. The United Nations and their Woke Resolutions can be helpful.

If a war breaks out, I would vulture the weaker side. I would need a foothold in the mainland to do the relocate palace, gift city, tech steal thing to catch up. Gift to who? The capitulated vassal of a big master. Masters tend to gift techs to their vassals. Then I steal them.

Obviously don't piss off...

Spoiler :

... Boudica. Her favourite civic is universal suffrage, we want her votes in the UN.

 

[Gwaja]

@Fippy

Ouch. That must have sucked a lot out of you.

@drewisfat

What was your Great Lighthouse date? I have tried without it twice now, and starting to think it is almost mandatory, even if we don't get to leverage it all that much until the catchup phrase post Optics.

 

[drewisfat]

t57 mandatory is too strong a word in civ

 

[TheMeInTeam]

"Trolling", was it? We all do a little trolling sometimes, haha. I did some fun stuff with doctoring maps a few times in the past, making advanced minor nations hidden on islands or deliberately adding rivers so that the most likely religion founders would auto-spread at much higher odds etc .

I was never good enough to reliably win deity, only through TAP cheese or in comfortable diplo situations. I got > 1000 videos overall then kind of trailed off. I still intend to come back to YouTube, but almost certainly not with Civ, as my game experience last 10ish years has been Paradox games + DCSS, with quite a few other sidelines in there. Among those, DCSS is most likely, since I'm far better at that than I was at any Civ game.

Reading through the summaries, this one looks pretty brutal.

 

[Gwaja]

"Trolling", was it? We all do a little trolling sometimes, haha. I did some fun stuff with doctoring maps a few times in the past, making advanced minor nations hidden on islands or deliberately adding rivers so that the most likely religion founders would auto-spread at much higher odds etc .

I was never good enough to reliably win deity, only through TAP cheese or in comfortable diplo situations. I got > 1000 videos overall then kind of trailed off. I still intend to come back to YouTube, but almost certainly not with Civ, as my game experience last 10ish years has been Paradox games + DCSS, with quite a few other sidelines in there. Among those, DCSS is most likely, since I'm far better at that than I was at any Civ game.

Reading through the summaries, this one looks pretty brutal.

I fondly do remember some of your doctored maps, but I think yours was more subtle than my typical ones. I just make sure to label them as "doctored/cooked" so that the expectations are there before anyone makes attempts. I am always looking for something fresh and new, even the ones most people shun as ineffective/inefficient/etc etc.

I've never been a huge fan of Paradox games. Lots of praise from many people, but my impression has always been that they seem overly money hungry. Each to its own. Still, no matter what you play, it would be nice to see your return on YouTube at some point.

I agree this map DOES suck and it is pretty brutal, considering the player has very little control of dictating the game until Optics, at which point, as showcased, a runaway monster AI or two can really make for a tough grind. @Henrik75 couldn't have played any better pre-Optics, but... there it is.

Nice to see that you still are keeping tabs here. Too many old friends from this forum now gone....

 

[drewisfat]

Yeah so I gave up after the joke that was t192. Not only did my army find Boudica's army on the high seas forcing my boats to turn around, but Rome managed to capitulate Charlie and Charlie's vassal Genghis and then immediately started his next plot.

 

[Gwaja]

Yeah so I gave up after the joke that was t192. Not only did my army find Boudica's army on the high seas forcing my boats to turn around, but Rome managed to capitulate Charlie and Charlie's vassal Genghis and then immediately started his next plot.

Valiant attempt. Some maps are just not meant to be. I've been rolling some horrible maps recently. Where is my start with grassland river tiles and gems with pushover AI nearby?