Hammurabi - Immortal Cookbook

[GKey]

That was breaking point for me.
Made peace with Peter, no?

 

[Dhoomstriker]

That was breaking point for me.
Made peace with Peter, no?

Spoiler :

I played for 11 straight turns and have the game still open (to eliminate the possibility of being tempted to reload).

As per my suggestion, I cut off Peter's Iron, then went for and captured one of his non-Moscow Cities. After that, I turned around and took Moscow with a two-pronged attack. By then, he'd emptied Moscow of all but 2 Longbowmen. It still had about 6 units in the City by the time that my two stacks had arrived next to the City and were ready to attack, but most of said units didn't have much of a Fortification bonus, while your Catapult-spam idea helped make a huge difference in that battle, too.

I actually used the Great Scientist on Printing Press and self-teched the rest of that tech before researching Nationalism, but I also used some Gold from capturing Cities to fund my research, so I didn't want to put that pressure on people with my earlier explanation (where I said to go straight for Nationalism), since Justinian learned Liberalism on the same turn as me. Of course, we got the free tech and he got shafted. That said, it was as tight as you would ever want to cut it for a Liberalism race.

I also own Zara's capital and the next plan is to push towards his second Iron and disconnect it. I tried to pillage his eastern Iron, but Saladin's culture beat me to it and now it's Saladin's Iron.

 

[CivConVict]

This was the first "true Pangea" game for a cookbook... obviously it's going to be easier for warmongerers... still it's something interesting to do once in a while. I'm a big fan of Fractal normally for the continents that can be reached via wb so that's usually what I generate.

Used to only play Continents when I was a noob... they tend to start off slower since you have less opportunities for trading and then they end fast because you take over your continent and then there's nothing left to do really but conquest or easy space.

Next game will definitely not be a steamroll-over the AI type, but I have not quite decided on the shape of the map yet

Fractal maps are certainly the most commonly played and for good reason, so they should make up the better part of a cookbook series. Nevertheless, if roughly every third map or so would pose a special challenge (because of the map layout, maybe an additional opponent, the availability of certain types of resources, handpicked opponents, etc.) I think it would be an interesting change once in a while.

 

[drlake]

Fractal maps are certainly the most commonly played and for good reason, so they should make up the better part of a cookbook series. Nevertheless, if roughly every third map or so would pose a special challenge (because of the map layout, maybe an additional opponent, the availability of certain types of resources, handpicked opponents, etc.) I think it would be an interesting change once in a while.

I've virtually never played fractal. What is the appeal?

I started to play forward from my save to see how it goes, and so far so good. After I declared on Peter and took a city, Darius vassaled himself to me. I've taken two cities from Peter now, am about ready to go for another, and am about to take out his Iron with a spy. Tech trades, a couple of GS's to mostly bulb Printing Press and Chemistry, and some tech trades have kept me in the tech race. Zara is fixated on using the AP for a Religious Victory, but lacks the votes. I'll post a report after 50 turns for feedback, and I'd appreciate any you offer.

 

[GKey]

Up to 1500AD.

Spoiler :

Went with my plan.

Made peace with Peter for gold/tech and focused on Zara.

Turn 157 was breaking point.



Same turn captured Aksum.



And made peace:



Now, remember me suggesting convert Zara into Buddhism? In my save he got that religion in one of his remaining cities. In dhoom's save he got no Bhuddism in his cities at all!
So I start missioner in order to spread Buddhism in one of Zara's cities, but suddenly realize: he runs Theocracy - his favorite civic - no other religion can be spread. And I can't convert him from Theocracy because I run theocracy myself!
I've just converted to it 2 turns ago on last turn of the Golden Age.
I was considering gifting to Zara some budda city, but decided not bother with it.
From this point I could not trade with Justinian. Good thing I did not need it.

I think it was a good thing having Zara as vassal still. He gave me Guilds, and he actually helped during next war with Saladin. AI get crazy bonuses on unit production on Immortal. I gifted him some techs and he pumped decent amount of units.

Back to the war.
Saladin got some serious stack on my borders:



So I wanted to go after him before Peter, but suddenly Darius asked me for:



Means I autodeclared on Peter instead.

With cannons things became boring.
8 turns later:



Saladin was next. Should of vassalize him instead eliminate, just wasted there ~10 turns more killing him. Same turn as he was dead declared on Justinian. Was really, really boring. Vassaled him 5 turns after declaration.



That was more then enough for domination.



Score:

 

[Yamps]

@GKey

Spoiler :

Now, remember me suggesting convert Zara into Buddhism? In my save he got that religion in one of his remaining cities. In dhoom's save he got no Bhuddism in his cities at all!
So I start missioner in order to spread Buddhism in one of Zara's cities, but suddenly realize: he runs Theocracy - his favorite civic - no other religion can be spread. And I can't convert him from Theocracy because I run theocracy myself!
I've just converted to it 2 turns ago on last turn of the Golden Age.
I was considering gifting to Zara some budda city, but decided not bother with it.
From this point I could not trade with Justinian. Good thing I did not need it.

A tip for you:

You could have gifted your Buddhist missionary to Zara and he'd spread it on his own. Theocracy works in mysterious ways!

Congrats!

 

[Fierabras]

I played my own save and got a conquest victory in 1340 AD by rushing the map with 50 cuirassiers/cavalry and making everyone capitulate. Very entertaining game. Thanks for all the advice.

Spoiler :

 

[GKey]

@Yamps Thanks! So you can spread another religion in your state on your own? Sounds like a bug.

@Fierabras

 

[Yamps]

@Yamps Thanks! So you can spread another religion in your state on your own? Sounds like a bug.

Yes, this is known for a long time. I've read it somewhere that there were some intentions to fix the AI logic regarding missionary usage, rather than simply removing the option. And so it stayed this way...

 

[kossin]

So... I'm looking at setting up the next game soonish... any decisions about the setup?

I'd keep the cookbook format myself. Players are free to continue from their own save or to pick the selected save by the group... Longer first round (~60) second round to 1A (~55), third and on 50 turns unless to the end is specified.

Thoughts?

 

[Fierabras]

I prefer: Immortal / Normal speed, Fractal map, Cookbook format.

A longer first round (60 turns) would be good for the opportunity to showcase a rush (around turn 50), but I wouldn't mind sticking to 50 turns turnsets.

As for civ/leader, I'm leaning towards a spiritual leader, so I don't have to worry about anarchy

 

[GKey]

let's make 1st round 70 turns

 

[GKey]

@Firebras You got conquest and I got domination with same vassal system. What was difference?

 

[Fierabras]

You got domination before you got conquest. I was close to domination, but got conquest because I made a vassal out of everyone. Your last remaining opponent wasn't a vassal yet, right? (correction: it was)

Edit: from your last screenshot it looks like you got both victories at the same turn...

 

[GKey]

I'd prefer conquest, its video is cooler

 

[Dhoomstriker]

@Firebras You got conquest and I got domination with same vassal system. What was difference?

There is a rumour going around that when you trigger both Victory Conditions on the same turn, the game randomly picks between the two of them.

While possible, it is also possible that people just don't understand the mechanics of what causes the game to choose.

If one or both of you uploads their game prior to winning, then someone with enough time on their hands and sufficient curiosity can:
play out an extra turn and win, plays out two extra turns and win, etc.

Then said person can see if they can figure out some kind of a pattern or other factor that influences the decision, or, failing that, gather evidence in support of the "random selection" theory.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

let's make 1st round 70 turns

Sounds fine, along with sticking to the Immortal Cookbook format. However, I'd then like to see the 2nd and 3rd rounds run for SHORTER time periods.

Round 1 = 70 turns
Round 2 = 40 turns
Round 3 = 40 turns

A lot can happen in 50 turns in Round 2 and in Rounds after that Round and thus we seem to see a big disconnect in a lot of our games as a result.

Sure, discussing strategy ahead of time has helped address this disconnect issue, but shortening the later turnsets would also help in this regard--still allowing for creativity, variance, and originality, but also keeping the games from diverging TOO much so as to make others not even want to play from a save.


Note that with a 70, 40, 40 format, we'll still end up ending Round 3 at Turn 150, but the games after the first round will be more closely synergized with each other. The lack of said synergy has probably been the biggest (or at least the most vocal) complaint raised about our Cookbook games, so this approach seeks to address that complaint, as well as addressing the complaint about not having enough time pull off a conclusively successful rush in Round 1 with only 50 Turns at Normal Speed.

 

[Fierabras]

There is a rumour going around that when you trigger both Victory Conditions on the same turn, the game randomly picks between the two of them.

While possible, it is also possible that people just don't understand the mechanics of what causes the game to choose.

If one or both of you uploads their game prior to winning, then someone with enough time on their hands and sufficient curiosity can:
play out an extra turn and win, plays out two extra turns and win, etc.

Then said person can see if they can figure out some kind of a pattern or other factor that influences the decision, or, failing that gather evidence in support of the "random selection" theory.

Another way is just to look in the code and see how it gets picked. I won't bother, unless someone really wants to know.

 

[GKey]

In both fierabras's and my games we both killed/vassaled all opponents and got more then 64% land/pop. I know for sure that in my game that was both conquest and domination on same turn. Can upload save if you want it still.

70/40/40 sounds good.

 

[drlake]

Sounds fine, along with sticking to the Immortal Cookbook format. However, I'd then like to see the 2nd and 3rd rounds run for SHORTER time periods.

Round 1 = 70 turns
Round 2 = 40 turns
Round 3 = 40 turns

A lot can happen in 50 turns in Round 2 and in Rounds after that Round and thus we seem to see a big disconnect in a lot of our games as a result.

Sure, discussing strategy ahead of time has helped address this disconnect issue, but shortening the later turnsets would also help in this regard--still allowing for creativity, variance, and originality, but also keeping the games from diverging TOO much so as to make others not even want to play from a save.


Note that with a 70, 40, 40 format, we'll still end up ending Round 3 at Turn 150, but the games after the first round will be more closely synergized with each other. The lack of said synergy has probably been the biggest (or at least the most vocal) complaint raised about our Cookbook games, so this approach seeks to address that complaint, as well as addressing the complaint about not having enough time pull off a conclusively successful rush in Round 1 with only 50 Turns at Normal Speed.

This works for me, but I don't mind just adding 10 turns to the first round and leaving the others at 50.