Han Jae-Moon

[BevHeartMuncher]

https://www.civilization.com/en/news/2015-09-introducing-han-jae-moon-of-chungsu/

Damn.

I have really mixed emotions. The article makes him out to be super smart - he's manipulative, he hacked that transmission, killed the doctor, to get on as leader of the colony. That makes sense with the spy bonus.

But the spy bonus is..meh. I feel like the amount of science you get isn't much. I mean, the steal science operation generally nets 250-600 science, but now, fully upgraded, any action adds 90? I suppose we'll have to wait and find out, but I guess with stacking as many spies as you can, you might be able to rush down some tech really fast.

Also, there's a lot of reason missing as to why he's a water civ - feels more like they wanted the specific bonus and realised he had to be on water so they just put him there.

Thoughts?

 

[GenEngineer]

Positive thoughts here. Multiple spies civs make it more relevant of a system, ensuring it sees more use in games (if just from a defensive standpoint). As for the bonus, never underestimate a science bonus. For one thing, I'm not certain they'll remember to exclude "Establish Network" from the operations, meaning you could quickly rack up science ith that. For another, the agreements have multiple spy options, including the ones with ARC, so spying could get really good. I'll wait to see the balance tested in practice, but I'd be more worried about it being overpowered than overpowered.

As for the water civ thing, well, isn't that the point? They go a lot into how the Great Mistake reshaped the world and created a mess, but all of the other factions essentially survived fine. Why not include one that had their land submerged and were forced to become aquatic? Makes for an interesting story and background, at least.

 

[Sunergy]

I'm unfamiliar with the naming conventions at work here, but the Doctor writing the message is Dr. Park Jae Moon and the new leader is Han Jae Moon. Does that mean that Han's own parent tried to get him disqualified from the seeding program and that Han then sent his own father or mother (I'm not sure if gender is implied by the name) out to pasture to silence them? If so, that's pretty hardcore.

The way that it's a water faction without a strong mechanical tie to water makes me feel like more factions should have been modified to start on water. It's an entirely valid design to have "water faction" be a trait that doesn't require a strong mechanical tie to water just to up the variety but it does look a little odd when there are only two water factions and only one of them lacks some kind of synergy.

 

[Karl0413]

In Korean surnames come first.

 

[Westwall]

I hope Koreans aren't a major demographic.

Because they're gonna be pissed.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I hope Koreans aren't a major demographic.

Because they're gonna be pissed.

I don't doubt that but that would be quite ironic since I am pretty sure the whole reason they picked a korean sponsor was to sell more games in South Korea.

 

[Cassadore]

I hope Koreans aren't a major demographic.

Because they're gonna be pissed.

At least they aren't part of a japanese-korean alliance like alot of people thought

 

[vahouth]

I hope Koreans aren't a major demographic.

Because they're gonna be pissed.

At the very least, they get to be represented in game.
I wouldn't complain.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

If the trait posted in the other thread is accurate, the bonus could be pretty good.
It's the kind that is strongest in the early game and helps you establish technological superiority before the the extra science becomes negligible. The free spy at the beginning will let you attempt to steal energy twice before you would normally have a spy agency. That's a pretty good start

I hope Koreans aren't a major demographic.

Because they're gonna be pissed.

To be fair, Koreans are always pissed. Asians often display a degree of nationalism that would make Westerners cringe. I mean, apparently there are alrady people complaining that the leader looks "too Chinese". I'm from the Rhineland, and I can't imagine anybody here throwing a fit that the INTEGR leader looks more Scandinavian than German.

 

[Psyonif]

Neat.

It's basically Chairman Yang crossed with Kim Jong Un crossed with a Bond villain.

I'm so glad there's finally an evil faction as opposed to the previous cavalcade of 11 Anodyne-Inoffensive-Multinational-Mashup factions.

 

[Westwall]

I don't doubt that but that would be quite ironic since I am pretty sure the whole reason they picked a korean sponsor was to sell more games in South Korea.

Monumentally ironic.

But if there's one thing most Koreans hate, it's being depicted as the bad guy regardless of how charismatic or brilliant. They like being the knight in shining armor, not the mad scientist. That's why you're seeing so many comments on that Korean site complaining about how this leader is a Western attempt to demonize all Koreans as deceptive manipulators.

 

[Doviello]

The synergy can get quite good with political traits:

Space Korea: extra covert agent and +30sci per agent level on success
Subtle: up to 25% faster missions and 30% less chance to die
ARC agreement: up to 50% faster missions

So you can spam dirty fast, safe missions, and rake in the energy/science. I was playing on epic, each mission took 28 turns, but with 75% off that's a mission every 7 turns. Probably every ~4 turns on standard speed.

 

[Sunergy]

Beyond Earth has never really been about flattering representations. America is represented by a corporation best known for underhanded tricks, France and Spain have a snobby cultural imperialist, Polynesia and Australia have a con-artist, India is basically a cult, and so on.

Future Earth after the great mistake basically sucks and the factions tend to represent not the highest aspirations of the nations they used to be but rather the most brutal and desperate tactics that they can bring to bear, tempered only slightly by the fact that most leaders seem to genuinely care for the collective wellbeing of their faction or their people more than their own gain. Chungsu is a shade darker than the rest of the factions with a egocentric and manipulative leader, but I don't think it's that different from what we've been seeing so far.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

The synergy can get quite good with political traits:

Space Korea: extra covert agent and +30sci per agent level on success
Subtle: up to 25% faster missions and 30% less chance to die
ARC agreement: up to 50% faster missions

So you can spam dirty fast, safe missions, and rake in the energy/science. I was playing on epic, each mission took 28 turns, but with 75% off that's a mission every 7 turns. Probably every ~4 turns on standard speed.

Math oversight: 50% faster doesn't mean in 50% less time. It means in 33% less time, and 25% faster means 20% less, that makes 53% less time needed fot spy missions.

Still potentially very strong, but I think by the point you have the political capital for the maxed out subtle trait the bonus science per mission goes from "awesome" to "nice to have".

 

[Doviello]

Math oversight: 50% faster doesn't mean in 50% less time. It means in 33% less time, and 25% faster means 20% less, that makes 53% less time needed fot spy missions.

Can you explain? idgi

 

[GenEngineer]

@ GoodSarmatian - the point still stands that it's really good in the early game, where that's potentially a decent chunk of science, and the extra spy means you have more than one operation running at once. Once you have all of those bonuses (which admittedly, take a while) it's not 90 science every 8 or so turns - it's 90*number of spies, minimum 4, every 8 or so turns. Get all of the quests and build all the buildings, you get what, 9 Spies (Supremacy required)? That's 810 Science every 8 turns, or around 100 extra science a turn.

Certainly nothing to sneeze at.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I'm unfamiliar with the naming conventions at work here, but the Doctor writing the message is Dr. Park Jae Moon and the new leader is Han Jae Moon. Does that mean that Han's own parent tried to get him disqualified from the seeding program and that Han then sent his own father or mother (I'm not sure if gender is implied by the name) out to pasture to silence them? If so, that's pretty hardcore.

The way that it's a water faction without a strong mechanical tie to water makes me feel like more factions should have been modified to start on water. It's an entirely valid design to have "water faction" be a trait that doesn't require a strong mechanical tie to water just to up the variety but it does look a little odd when there are only two water factions and only one of them lacks some kind of synergy.

Its doesnt just lack a Strong mechanical tie, they have NO mechanical ties to the water. If they just added '+10% to sub production' it would be something.

 

[Westwall]

Chungsu is a shade darker than the rest of the factions with a egocentric and manipulative leader, but I don't think it's that different from what we've been seeing so far.

I think he's the first cold-blooded murderer though.

 

[poom3619]

Suggest the mod to add (New/Confirmed 4th sponsor), I thought it was something post by spam bot, before hover over it.

I hope Koreans aren't a major demographic.

Because they're gonna be pissed.

At least they bother localize Civ5 and Beyond Earth in Korean... and Japanese and Traditional Chinese (for Taiwan)

IMO, Japanese may be pissed because they aren't represented and I think Japanese may take it that Firaxis loved Korean customer more than Japanese.

But as some said, the "compromise" will certainly pissed both Japanese and Korean even more.

 

[Barathor]

Sweet!! We have a Korean Dr. Evil!

I can't wait to see the interactions between him and Fielding. Spy vs. Spy. Didn't see something like this coming; I really like it! The introduction and background was pretty cool to and up there with Al Falah's.