Handy 22 Always War C4 Noble

Good observation vmxa. I will use that next time.

As for the landing, there was a galleon off our southwestern coast and I moved a stack of keshiks and knights down there in case of a landing. Where did this landing occur?

I agree that the IBT animation is very poor. You really need to watch the headlines instead of the animation.
 
Preturn: Looked over the situation. Noticed a dangerous situation in Hovd - 3 Japanese units next to a city with only a Keshik. I brought some more Keshik into the city and upgraded so we could defend it.

IBT: We lose 2 Cav. One in Hovd and one on the other continent.

1852: Attack and Destroy Memphis.

IBT: Lose another Cavalry in Hovd

1854 AD: Interesting: An unhappy city adds its extra food to a settler that includes food that is feeding the unhappy people. For example, if you have 5 unhappy people, you are at -1 food total, but adding 9 food toward the settler. That feels like a bug to me.

IBT: Another landing I nearly missed. After looking into why, I see that enemy moves has been turned off. This makes it nearly impossible to see. With it turned on, you can see when troops are dumped on your shore. It defaults to off. I would always turn it on (I am unsure how it got set to off as it was on before).

1856 AD: Start attack on Elephantine.

BTW, I don't find the fact that we have positive WW as being as bad as stated in this thread - at least not yet. Sure, I am now running at 20% culture, but that isn't terrible. We can still run science at 50%. This is all without police state. If we switched to police state and built mount rushmore, that would lower it by 75% with a jail possibly bringing it to zero?? In any case, it makes life a bit more difficult, but not unbearably so - in fact the science issue in Civ3 is more tricky than here.

This is so far, but if we kill off civs, I think we will be fine. I do think it means we want to kill one civ at a time.

Actually, I don't think I will revolt to police state. The fact that MP act to add happiness seems better at the moment. Only if WW increases will police state be worthwhile.

1858 AD: We now have zero people unhappy in our empire. Everyone is working - this is at 20% "Lux" rate. Mostly it was a matter of getting enough MPs to acchieve.

We attack Elephantine killing most units.

1860 AD: We attack and Capture Elephantine. WW has increased making towns unhappy again. That may be because we are pillaging. We may want to retreat and stop - it would be an interesting test of WW to try that.

We could also destroy Egypt. They have one island city left.

Notes:
Make sure you have enemy movement turned on. It is off by default. When on you see all the enemy units move like in civ3. I think that is why Bugs missed the landing - it was definitely off.

Our towns are defended better. We have a few real units on the mainland. MP is much better balanced as well.

Capturing Elephantine allows us to build rails. I am unsure if the capture will cause the AI to attack. We have several units in the city.
 
1. Greebley -
2. Mark1031 - up
3. Handy - on deck
4. ThERat -
5. Sir Bugsy -
6. Obormot -

I don't know what will be better. MP's + 20% lux to fight WW or police state. It will depend on the support cost as well and we need to check that. Once the AI has democracy and changes to emancipation (or is that US), it might get worse.
And we need to remember this is a lower difficulty setting with less unhappy people by default. It will only get worse on higher levels.

Thanks for pointing out enemy movement, hope that it will be better now. Lost a nice monarch game thanks to missed landing :mad:
 
Got it an played a bit. This is fun. Egypt is gone but we lost Elephantine. AI played it quite well bringing up large stacks and using arty. Quite impressive.
 
Turn 285 (1860 AD)
Things look good. On the IT Our Cav landing force in America is decimated. (2/2)

Tech learned: Scientific Method
Cavalry defeats (3.00/15): American Infantry
Cavalry defeats (8.70/15): American Infantry
Cavalry loses to: American Pikeman (2.94/6)
Cavalry loses to: American Infantry (20.00/20)

Turn 286 (1862 AD)

Moving Troops toward Japan and take a small force of cav and a cannon to finish off Egypt. Decide to revolt to Police state and Theocracy. Besides the WW it gives 25% (I assume production) of military units. Theocracy gives +2 XP.

Turn 287 (1864 AD)

Cavalry defeats (11.85/15): Japanese Rifleman

(2/3)

Turn 288 (1866 AD)

Start lots of happy infra where needed. Moving troops on Parthian and bombard.

Turn 289 (1868 AD)
Catapult loses to: Japanese Rifleman (11.20/14)
Catapult loses to: Japanese Rifleman (8.12/14)
Cannon defeats (4.80/12): Japanese Rifleman
Cavalry defeats (8.25/15): Japanese Pikeman
Cavalry defeats (13.05/15): Japanese Grenadier

Cavalry defeats (15.00/15): Aztec War Elephant
Cavalry defeats (11.10/15): Aztec Musketman
Cavalry defeats (13.20/15): Japanese Longbowman
Pikeman defeats (6.00/6): Aztec Horse Archer
Cavalry defeats (15.00/15): Aztec Horse Archer
Razed Parthian

Caravel loses to: Japanese Frigate (8.00/8)

(5/11) Counting 2 suicide Cats and a caravel. We raze the Japanese city but there appears a huge stack of Japanese and Chinese forces to go after our injured stack.

Turn 290 (1870 AD)
Grabbed the silver for need happy on the Island up North. Why wasn't the city up there already put on or next to the silver? I see nothing else of use up there. I founded right on the silver to speed the happy. It is a junk city in the cold north and needs defense. The Japanese go after our stack and while our troops hold out nicely we begin to take losses. Got to get out of there.


Dalandzadgad founded-Silver city
Machine Gun defeats (18.00/18): Japanese Catapult
Machine Gun defeats (16.38/18): Japanese Catapult
Machine Gun defeats (13.68/18): Japanese Rifleman
Machine Gun defeats (2.88/18): Japanese Rifleman
Cavalry defeats (5.85/15): Japanese Rifleman
Cavalry defeats (13.20/15): Japanese Grenadier
Cavalry defeats (12.30/15): Japanese Crossbowman
Cavalry loses to: Japanese Rifleman (11.62/14)
Cavalry loses to: Japanese Rifleman (11.62/14)
Cavalry loses to: Japanese Rifleman (7.28/14)
Cavalry loses to: Japanese Grenadier (4.44/12)
Cavalry defeats (6.00/15): Japanese Grenadier
Cavalry defeats (7.80/15): Japanese Samurai
Infantry defeats (14.00/20): Chinese Rifleman
Infantry defeats (20.00/20): Chinese Rifleman

body count (9/22).

Turn 291 (1872 AD)
Our force that took Parthianis are being ground down by a massive number of troops. We start a strategic retreat to the coast and reinforcements.our valiant machine gun falls in battle. We need more of these they are great cover. Two big stacks headed for Elephantine 1 Jap one Chinese. The city is doomed.

Tech learned: Physics
Caravel loses to: Japanese Frigate (8.00/8)
Machine Gun defeats (8.46/18): Japanese Catapult
Rifleman defeats (7.28/14): Japanese Rifleman
Machine Gun loses to: Japanese Rifleman (9.94/14)
Grenadier defeats (8.16/12): Japanese Rifleman
Grenadier defeats (7.56/12): Japanese Grenadier
Rifleman defeats (4.76/14): Japanese Longbowman
Grenadier defeats (6.60/12): Japanese Longbowman

Body count (11/28)

Turn 292 (1874 AD)

During our retreat we come up next to a size one Japanese city with some older units in it. Might as well take it out now.

Cannon loses to: Chinese Rifleman (7.28/14)
Infantry defeats (17.40/20): Chinese Rifleman
Cannon defeats (7.92/12): Japanese Samurai
Cannon defeats (8.16/12): Japanese Samurai
Cannon defeats (4.80/12): Japanese Samurai
Cannon defeats (9.36/12): Japanese Crossbowman
Cannon defeats (10.80/12): Japanese Crossbowman
Cannon defeats (10.80/12): Japanese Pikeman
Cannon defeats (10.80/12): Japanese Pikeman
Cannon defeats (9.96/12): Japanese Pikeman
Cavalry defeats (13.65/15): Japanese Catapult
Cavalry defeats (8.25/15): Japanese Catapult
Razed Izumo

Body count (12/39). By the way this Cannons are great against weaker units. Good way to get promotions and decimate a stack. Knockout a couple of cats that are getting ready to give us collateral damage.

Cavalry defeats (14.55/15): Japanese Catapult
Cavalry defeats (10.50/15): Japanese Catapult

Body count (12/41)

Invasion of Bylbos goes without a hitch and Hattie is no more. I keep it because of the oil.

Cannon defeats (0.60/12): Egyptian Longbowman
Cavalry defeats (3.75/15): Egyptian Crossbowman and
Captured Byblos (Hatshepsut)

As revenge for the destruction of the Egyptians Mao decides to take Elephantine. There wasn't much I can do about it.

Caravel loses to: Chinese Frigate (8.00/8)
Infantry defeats (16.40/20): Chinese Catapult
Infantry defeats (13.20/20): Chinese Rifleman
Infantry defeats (6.00/20): Chinese Rifleman
Infantry defeats (8.00/20): Chinese Catapult
Infantry loses to: Chinese Rifleman (6.86/14)
Cavalry defeats (8.10/15): Chinese Knight
Cavalry defeats (0.60/15): Chinese Knight
Cavalry loses to: Chinese Knight (3.70/10)
Cavalry defeats (5.70/15): Chinese Knight
Cavalry loses to: Chinese Knight (6.60/10)
Infantry loses to: Chinese Rifleman (6.44/14)
Cavalry loses to: Chinese Knight (8.60/10)
Cannon loses to: Chinese Knight (4.60/10)
Cavalry loses to: Chinese War Elephant (8.00/8)
Elephantine lost

Body count (20/50).

Turn 293 (1876 AD)
No action, start a few useful wonders. It is a real shame that Beshbalik has built its 2 small wonders as it has both coal and iron as well as the heroic epic (100% military) it would be a military monster with the Ironworks. I don't know where to really put this and the moment. I didn't look into it but can we destroy that other small wonder? Continue strategic retreat. Our Navy is weak and we are starting to get some nets pillaged. This is painful. The oil is hooked up and I start destroyers in most coastal cities.

Beshbalik begins: The Pentagon
Turfan begins: Wall Street
Tabriz begins: Mt. Rushmore


Turn 294 (1878 AD)

A bunch of Caravels sitting around in the open ocean I assume on Sentry duty engage the enemy quite unsuccessfully. I guess I should have pulled some of these back and upgraded for coastal defense but we will have destroyers soon and the upgrades are so damned expensive. Our retreating stack takes more losses. ouch

Caravel loses to: Japanese Frigate (8.00/8)
Cavalry defeats (12.75/15): Japanese Grenadier
Rifleman defeats (12.74/14): Japanese Catapult
Rifleman defeats (10.50/14): Japanese Rifleman
Rifleman defeats (1.82/14): Japanese Rifleman
Grenadier loses to: Japanese Rifleman (4.76/14)
Grenadier defeats (2.28/12): Japanese Grenadier
Cavalry defeats (8.10/15): Japanese Grenadier
Cavalry loses to: Japanese Grenadier (0.96/12)
Rifleman defeats (0.42/14): Japanese Rifleman
Cavalry loses to: Japanese Rifleman (2.80/14)
Cavalry defeats (2.85/15): Japanese Rifleman
Cavalry loses to: Japanese Grenadier (9.96/12)
Cavalry loses to: Japanese Grenadier (7.68/12)
Caravel loses to: Chinese Frigate (5.12/8)
Caravel loses to: Chinese Frigate (5.36/8)

Body count (28/58).



Turn 295 (1880 AD)
More meat grinding. Our stack of cannons is getting decimated. We should be hooked up with reinforcements toward the coast and get to a forest tile next turn to heal and regroup.

Cavalry defeats (10.35/15): Japanese Catapult
Cavalry defeats (10.35/15): Japanese Catapult
Cavalry defeats (1.80/15): Japanese Rifleman
Longbowman defeats (6.00/6): Japanese Catapult
Longbowman defeats (1.92/6): Japanese Catapult
Cannon defeats (3.36/12): Japanese Catapult
Cannon loses to: Japanese Rifleman (7.70/14)
Cannon loses to: Japanese Grenadier (9.00/12)
Pikeman loses to: Japanese Grenadier (10.44/12)
Rifleman loses to: Japanese Rifleman (4.20/14)
Cannon loses to: Japanese Grenadier (5.28/12)
Grenadier loses to: Japanese Grenadier (2.64/12)
Cannon defeats (10.32/12): Japanese Grenadier
Galley loses to: Aztec Caravel (2.04/3)

Body count (35/65).

Handyre.JPG


Well that was a lesson in humility. It felt at the beginning that we could just walk all over the place without being challenged so I headed into Japanese territory and raised a couple of cities but they brought a huge amount of troops to bear on that stack and there was nowhere to go for safety. We only had one machine gun and too few rifles for cover. Machine guns are the key cover I think right now as they get 50 percent versus gunpowder units we really need a mix of these and infantry. They definitely aren't going to let our troops just waltz around unchallenged and they like to use arty. Luckily it was only cats and not cannons but those are coming. It is definitely not as easy as I expected. I think the key right now is to get flight first. With flight and carriers we will rule this game. Fighters have two roles, one they can explore deep into enemy territory revealing the whole map and troop position. More importantly they can pillage tiles and keep the oil disconnected. If the AI can't get access to oil they are finished. They will have no Navy and no Air Force and no tanks. I should have thought of this eariler but the research path was set. Please switch to flight after electricity completes in 2 it is not pre set.
 
Mark1031 said:
Well that was a lesson in humility. It felt at the beginning that we could just walk all over the place without being challenged so I headed into Japanese territory and raised a couple of cities but they brought a huge amount of troops to bear on that stack and there was nowhere to go for safety. We only had one machine gun and too few rifles for cover. Machine guns are the key cover I think right now as they get 50 percent versus gunpowder units we really need a mix of these and infantry. They definitely aren't going to let our troops just waltz around unchallenged and they like to use arty. Luckily it was only cats and not cannons but those are coming. It is definitely not as easy as I expected.

That sounds encouraging. :)


- Sirian
 
It sounds very much that the AI will only react if they or their friends are attacked even if at war or if we have a city. This has interesting ramifications if true (and is also fairly realistic). It means we may be able to take out unloved nations, or use an more intelligent divide and conquer strategy that could be quite interesting to manipulate.

This is a possible guess based on the fact that we were left alone when attacking Egypt. There were large number of AI troops that did nothing. However when we attacked Japan, it appeared we got both Japan and China, and our city definitely attracted interest.

It will be interesting to play further games and see what the AI responds to and try to figure out why.

It may also make Continents play more interesting in that you can primarily fight only a fraction of the other AI instead of all of them even if they share an island.
 
It will be interesting to play further games and see what the AI responds to and try to figure out why.

I have noticed [on a lake map] that I could heal on a hill in the neutral space created after razing a city and the AI would ignore me [even if they had better units - tanks versus machine guns/cav/cannon]. Once you enter AI borders again they will attack you, and when you move to a tile next to a city they really come after you.

If you have units of equal value - you both have cav - you can pretty much pillage with impunity if you stay 1 tile away from cities. To go near a city you may need a stack. If they have stronger units than you they will attack your pillagers [stack size seems to matter a little in this]. One effective strategy is to pillage early and often. More cash for you to research and thus maintain strong pillaging units - less cash for the AI to research and catch up with. It is at least one snowball that has worked a lake map.


1. Greebley -
2. Mark1031 -
3. Handy - I'll get it tonight :)
4. ThERat -
5. Sir Bugsy -
6. Obormot
 
Going near a city is to invite collateral damage from cats/cannons. This will really reduce you effectiveness and risk out right attacks.

I try to keep pillagers out of instant collateral damage attacks.
 
Pre-turn
:eek: Run for your lives boys!
We lose a fishing boat, galley and…
Grenadier
3 Cannon
Rifle
Pike

Kill 5 cats; rifle

Turn 1 1882

Haul butt and pair up with some cavalry reinforcement.
MM a couple of cities @ max happiness so they will not grow.
Note to self to irrigate plains so cities with extra happiness can grow.
Upgrade a frigate to destroyer.


Turn 2 1882
Research set to flight
Cav reinforcements defend three times
Destroyer kills a Frigate
Our weary units reach a jungle tile and a lone infantry unit reinforces the wounded stack.
Next turn reinforcements arrive in force.

Turn 3 1886
Healing

Turn 4 1888
Healing

Turn 5 1890
-

Turn 6 1892
Japan has dropped three units near Kazan
We will play defense there.

Turn 7 1894
Win 2 lose on defense at Kazan
Mace men and horse archers attack our infantry.

Turn 8 1896
:hmm: Why does the rifle get to attack our sword at Kazan and not the Cavalry?
FYI: Military units are on go to orders to the port city

Turn 9
Mount Rushmore is done, but happiness appears to be unchanged. Turfan was unhappy :confused: before and is still unhappy.

Turn 10 8998
Turfan is a little happier. Maybe Rushmore kicked in.
We enter the modern era and America has tanks
I selected artillery over Industrialism.
Crap. We can build fighters but not bombers. We need Radio so I switched research to that. The tech tree is a little confusing.
I set Grumpus to a settler since we need cities across the sea to base the bombers. No more airfields.
Rome has a jail and people are a little happier.

1. Greebley -
2. Mark1031 -
3. Handy -
4. ThERat - up
5. Sir Bugsy -
6. Obormot
 
got it, America has tanks? :eek: this will be much tougher than initially thought. Well, I guess we need to pillage America and focus on them.
 
fighters are the only ones that can go on carriers anyway. They are just fine for pillaging the oil. We should load up a few carriers and make sure American oil is disconnected.
 
save

Pre-Turn
open the game to be greeted by a yellow cloud hanging over Grumpus Prime :)
well, it has been a while since I played my turns, a nice change to the almost 2-3 plater game we had initially
enable enemy movement as the first thing, thoug sometimes the way it is implemented makes one feel dizzy.

Tech: we are currently going for radio and bomebrs, I would go for tanks next

Cities: Karakorum is one a factory but would go sick and shrink, onsert an aquaduct first, Antium has the same issue
Rome gets a granary first, since it also has this issue
Turfan gets a harbor inserted for the same reason
do some other minor MM, nothing that big
there is an apparent lack of work boats, but without proper defense, I guess they are futile

IT it's a little confusing, but I spot several naval units including an American transport, that we need to intercept
also some units gte attacked by a cannon, but I have to figure out what is that

1. 1902AD
Rome finishes the granary and now can go for a factory

handy221920a.jpg

sink transport
sink a frigate and protect our lone surviving fish

Now I spot that huge stack we have in the enemy territory, move some units on the hill, the rest heals

IT see some boats floating, but nothing else happening

2. 1904AD
we get a settler for overseas
pillage some tiles including fish and clams to finance our deficit research
reduce lux to 20% and radio is down to 4 turns
I see that we are on free market when we can't trade with the rest, maybe mercantilism would be better

IT spot an American tank, but nothing much else going on, our lone pillager Cav's are left alone

3. 1906AD
spot a Chinese convoy
handy221920b.jpg

destroyer sinks frigate and and 2 frigates finish the galleons :dance:
move our stack next to Chengdu

IT the Chinese sacrifice a cannon and 2 knights trying to fight our stack, but succumb

4. 1908
spot a Japanese convoy in the east, sink the frigate but the galleons is still there
use the new transport to sink it
pillage some tiles for 60gold
bombard Chengdu's defenses down to 0%
attack with a cannon that retreats and causes nice damage
2 Cavs defeat 2 LB, 2 inf kill 2 knights and a final cav kills wounded grenadier, we loot the town for 250gold

IT we lose one pillager Cav that ended up next to Xian by accident (it was in the fog)

5. 1910AD
we have a Great that can research for us towards tanks, this is great, but only 1500beakers, that's a mere 2 turns
Antium makes the most money, send him there and join him, this improves our income by 12gpt at 30% gold
found Foothold on the other continent, hope our defenses will be sufficient, rebase a fighter there

IT one of our galleons gets shredded by an American battleship
we get radio, industralism next in 6

6. 1912AD
a quiet turn, moving on the Xian

IT can spot American tanks coming closer, they will surely try and attack our new town
also the battleship comes closer

7. 1914AD
take down the defense in Xian to 12%, pillage a little near Xian
our figther damages the battleship

IT a small stack of ours is taken apart by the Chinese forces, they lose some cats/cannons but the rule
wounded unit = dead unit applies again. This way even cannons can take apart infantry

8. 1916AD
reconnect the crab in the south to help out with our health problems
Xian's defenses are down to 0%
suicide one cannon, the 2nd cannon actually defeats a machine gunner, something is not right I feel (that machine gun wasn't red)
that city is doomed
handy221920c.jpg

defeat 2 horse archers next to Foothold

IT one of the inf in our big stack defeats a rifle on defense

9. 1918AD
our first bombers are online
Rome finishes factory and goes for coal plant
move part of our stack forward, the rest is healing outside enemy territory
land 3 units on the Island next to us

IT there is now a barb city next to Foothold and the AI goes after that, thanks a lot

10. 1920AD
continue to move our stack towards Bejing
handy221920d.jpg


while promoting an infantry, the game sort of halts for no apparent reason and then CTD
I love this feature of the game. while trying to move the mouse, this is followed by a complete reboot
2nd SG today, second time reboot, guys at Firaxis, that's not it
reload autosave from 1918...replay moves, how nice....while loading I can easily go for a coffee break....
this game is so slow, which i can accept, but those reboots are too frequent

after reload, attack that Aztec city and raze it for 55g, we can go and attack nagoya also, I would keep that city however
it's a good expansion in that direction
handy221920e.jpg



there is a stack of Chinese units in front of Foothold, bombard with 2 fighters
take out 4 of their units without losses, we have 3 gunners there, shouldn't be an issue to hold the town

we get tanks in 2 turns, this in combination with bombers and cannons should be good enough to fight faster
I feel progress is so slow here
 
we should propbaly try and pillage the American oil, they are the real threat here

and don't ever forget the golden rule for CIV4

'a wounded unit as as good as a dead unit', well maybe it's not a golden rule, but I have discovered that wounded units perform far below their displayed odds. Our tactics have to cater for that.

1. Greebley -
2. Mark1031 -
3. Handy -
4. ThERat
5. Sir Bugsy -up
6. Obormot
 
lurker's comment:
I hope Handy 23 will be on a Pangaea. I might even get masochistic and join it. ;)

So far this one really lack the excitement of AW, even though the odds look like you won't clear the map.
I suspect AW will need to be at Epic speed, as it gives you more time to take out cities.


 
"I see that we are on free market when we can't trade with the rest, maybe mercantilism would be better"

If AW is selected, can you trade with anyone? I can't remember if that would be allowed. If it is, that needs to be corrected.
 
I have it. I have two SGs on the plate so this may not be complete until late Sunday.
 
lurkers comment..If you read the thread on combat in the strategy articles section, you will see that, assuming everything else is equal, a 6/20 infantry is worse than a full health (6/6) longbow. This is because even though both units attack/defend with base strength 6, the Infantry only has 30 HP remaining, while the bow has 100.
 
CiverDan said:
lurkers comment..If you read the thread on combat in the strategy articles section, you will see that, assuming everything else is equal, a 6/20 infantry is worse than a full health (6/6) longbow. This is because even though both units attack/defend with base strength 6, the Infantry only has 30 HP remaining, while the bow has 100.

Ya, thats a very important point I hadn't thought through. Fortunately, I have been letting unit heal when I have been playing.
 
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