hanging gardens +1 pop questions

[Torvoni]

Is the hanging gardens a good deal?

It gives +1 population in all cities.

I'm thinking this is a totally useful and free citizen,
who can be used to work any tile or become any available specialist,
and who is happy to become a resident of my growing empire.

Most likely I will be able to beat the AI to this great wonder.

Since I'm having a hard time keeping my two small cities happy ... it seems like I don't want an unhappy new city dweller.

Is the +1 pop guaranteed to be happy?
Is the hanging gardens really much better than it appears at first glance?

I just moved up a level in difficulty ... and I specifically avoided the religious tech path in order to get a feeling for a different type of game. Because of this I don't have any temples, and I need to think about the actual value of each particular great wonder and how it will function within my long range plans.

Are there particular strategies where the hanging gardens is better or worse?

 

[Tatran]

Most players don't build the Hanging Gardens for the reasons
you mentioned, but for the 2 GPPs (Great Engineer).

 

[svv]

I think that all it does is grow each of your then-existing cities by one. You still have to feed him, and he still counts against the city for happiness(crowding) and health.

Thus, it is not the same (and not nearly as good) as getting the free specialists from statute of liberty, great library, or mercantilism, as these give you pop you don't have to feed, don't count against your limits, and apply to cities captured or founded in the future.

 

[malekithe]

It's generally a fairly miss-able wonder. There are 3 occasions when it is of considerable use:

1) You want a city that has a higher chance of producing a Great Engineer (possibly to use on a late-game wonder).

2) You just increased your happiness cap considerably (got calendar, met some new trading partners who had luxuries, etc...) and want to grow to your new cap quickly.

3) You're trying to maximize your end-game score by pushing your population as high as possible before victory.

At the least, if you're in slavery, the population boost amount to an extra 30 free hammers in every city.

 

[Torvoni]

OK.

Thanks for the info.

The hanging gardens is good enough, but not nearly as good as I thought. It just felt way too powerful for such a minimal investment.

Most likely I will try to get it anyway after building another city, and then just whip away the extra population as soon as they get unhappy.

Since I started playing civ4 my approach is just in a rut of wonders and culture and great artists and great prophets and temples and cathedrals and shrines. I'm trying to develop a new strategy.

A free specialist is very good.
A one time only citizen added to each city is not so great.

In civ3 I used to build workers in some big cities and then force them to join the marginal cities. Seems like you can't do that any more now.

Things I learned today:
The hanging gardens is used to grow great engineers.

Things I learned previously:
Don't get too comfortable playing on easy settings, because the simple techniques will fall apart as soon as you increase the difficulty setting.

 

[EscapedGoat]

Things I learned today:
The hanging gardens is used to grow great engineers.

lol! I can see it clearly as a picture in my mind... sowing little engineerlings to grow more great engineers.

 

[KMadCandy]

It's generally a fairly miss-able wonder. There are 3 occasions when it is of considerable use:

i'd add a 4th, in a one-city-challenge. once you get globe theater (timing depends on when you want to risk the GA pollution in your GPP), happiness isn't a factor at all. but health is a HUGE factor.

 

[Atlas]

In Multiplayer the Hanging Gardens are the Bee's Knees, easily the difference between and win and a loss.

I disagree-this is an easy wonder to get. The AI generally has trouble getting the wonders that require a building first like Hanging Gardens, Colossus, and Great Lighthouse.

As for the HG only being good for Great Engineers . Some have mentioned that you can whip away the pop. if they are unhappy, but consider this- it is only 300 hammers, if you have 5 cities and whip away the resulting 5 pop. points then you really paid significantly less for the wonder.

 

[Galileo44]

In Multiplayer the Hanging Gardens are the Bee's Knees, easily the difference between and win and a loss.

I completely agree. In MP, the extra population across the empire (and even more with teams, my team once gained 20 population from the HG) is huge even if you only think of each of those population points in terms of whipping hammers. 20 pop is a lot of catapults/macemen/elephants.

 

[cabert]

I rarely build the HG myself, but when I do it's for one of the 3 reasons Malekithe mentionned.

Thinking about it, 30 free hammers in every city is making this thing much better than I thought .
It's still not a priority, you want to have at least 6 cities before finishing this.
Then, if you had stone to build the HG, you have more hammers on feet than what you invested

 

[acidsatyr]

I think of HG as extra 30 hammers in every city you can whip.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

My brain freezed and i made stupid post, again (edit). Yep, all the reasons have already been stated. I actually messed up whipping and chopping on my comment here.

 

[cabert]

edit : remove unnecessary comment.

I'll give HG a higher priority in my next games.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

I did manage to edit my post before your comment . Note to myself, never post here after spending last night in bar... oh wait. Mixed up my thoughts about slavery and chopping, for some wierd (Rauchbier) reason.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

edit : remove unnecessary comment.

I'll give HG a higher priority in my next games.

Thanks; its a good wonder and i completely missed up my thoughts, as i explaned in my second post. You were fast to point my mistake out .

 

[Fronx]

How I see and use HG, factors that I count in:

- Extra population to whip in exsisting cities
- Health
- GPP
- Culture (city where you build it is next to enemy whom you wont kill (yet), but want to keep the border

+ Extra use for HG is to time founding of new cities just before completing HG (depending on map, there easily is room for new cities by the time you are completing HG). Before finishing HG, make sure that you have founded all new cities you're about to find in near future => yay, insta 2 pop cities, faster start for the city (especially if the city is not in optimal place --as cities made this late often aren't)

 

[scy12]

HG along with SOL is the best wonder in the game. Very cheap and a direct great effect . +1 population is great as are +1 health and the Gpp points. I always build it if i am industrious and i always think ,try to build in other occasions.

 

[tycoonist]

HG along with SOL is the best wonder in the game. Very cheap and a direct great effect . +1 population is great as are +1 health and the Gpp points. I always build it if i am industrious and i always think ,try to build in other occasions.

there is absolutely no way that this is correct. the SoL is very good and perhaps is one of the top five but nothing can beat pyramids or the Great Library IMO and i don't think many would argue with that. hanging gardens is useful but no the best in the game.

 

[scy12]

there is absolutely no way that this is correct. the SoL is very good and perhaps is one of the top five but nothing can beat pyramids or the Great Library IMO and i don't think many would argue with that. hanging gardens is useful but no the best in the game.

To each his own. For it's cost i prefer HG. The Pyramids may be harder to build or disrupt your strategy. HG and[/I GL ]comes at a time where it is easier to build wonders . But HG is easier to build. Again IMHO.

 

[UncleJJ]

Interesting, I've never really considered the bonus pop as worth much, but I can now see it is a worthwhile bonus that can be used to give a hammer refund if using Slavery (which I always am when I build it).

Normally I only build it in a game where I have health problems in one or more cities (say 6 floodplains and no forests) and few health resources are available. Health is usually easier to get in the early game (both the resources and the buildings to boost the resources even more) and the consequences are less dire than happiness problems. So in my floodplain city with health problems I often build an aquaduct (to effectively save 2 food / turn) and that makes the Hanging Garden available. And I think... why not give it a go? Especially if I have stone to boost its production. I often use Slavery to help get the hammers, either directly by whipping the last few hammers, or indirectly by overflow from something else I'm building (like the aquaduct ) Six floodplain farms produce food at an obscene rate. I am not above chopping a forest or two outside the city's fat cross too.

Hanging gardens is a very good wonder and the 2 GE GPPs per turn are nice too. Who ever thought they had too many GEs in the early game?