Hannibal and the Carthiginians

[del62]

I was looking in the Civ specific articles in war academy and noticed there was no article on the carthiginians, as I had just started a game with them on a Monarch Archipelgo with 7 random AI, I was interested on others comments on them.

I had a not great starting position (a narrow strip of land surrounded by water) with my settler on the one wheat square, so an initial move was required, one stroke of luck which became apparent later was Ivory.

The next problem was that to the south there was only room for one city, and two the north there was very unproductive plains, so a REX was going to be difficult, especially as the aggressive Incans were there.

I went for the code of laws, philosophy and code of laws sling shot, and having set to slow growing cities to north started pumping out numibidian merceneries, started a pre- build of the statue of zeus (for ancient cavalry) while researching mathematics and refused an incan request for writing, this triggered a war and my golden age in which I lost and then regained one of my 4 cities, had to abandon republic (for unit support) and slowly after much defending the ancient cavalry gave me an advantage, I also noticed on a pop up that the incans were the most advanced civ, this would be good for the future when signing peace treaties, my ancient cavalry allowed me to take three of their cities, and I went for a peace treaty to gain some techs (i forgot to get all there gold too a mistake), I noticed more techs available and started another war, took another city, does anyone know if they will give out techs in the next peace treaty?

I am pleased that I managed to recover from a poor starting position but it would have been very difficult without ancient cavalry.

Should I have traded some of my techs for the new ones after the peace treaty?

 

[Spoonwood]

I happen to quite like Carthage myself (although I think Hanibal rather ugly, unlike Theodora). Num. mercs. cost a good bit, but make for one of my favorite units. They can have a field day with barbarians. Industrious and seafaring both come as rather powerful traits in my mind. Both imply commerce early on and in general more commerce. I don't play warmonger really, but Carthage doesn't seem like a warmonger tribe. They also don't seem like all too much of a builder tribe when I think of it, since they only have cheap harbors, commercial docks, and offshore platforms, right? Well, cheap harbors does quite a bit of good I'd say towards both growth and commerce. But still, for a 100k Carthage doesn't come out near the top, nor do they for a 20k... except starting on a coast (seafaring) makes for a decent advantage. They have a good unit for controlling the timing of their G. A. For a spaceship game they do have decent commerce for faster research. For a diplomatic game, they'll have plenty of gold, I'd think, to buy votes. I don't think their strength lies in either building or warmongering... much like the English. Like The English they come out as a "buyer" tribe which has plenty of commercial potential.

 

[Death_Machine]

I noticed more techs available and started another war, took another city, does anyone know if they will give out techs in the next peace treaty?

Should I have traded some of my techs for the new ones after the peace treaty?

1. Yes, if you whoop on them long & hard enough they'll give you anything to leave them alone.

2. I don't like to trade my techs unless I plan on killing the recipiant before they have a chance to meet others & share.

 

[Snarkhunter]

1. Yes, if you whoop on them long & hard enough they'll give you anything to leave them alone.

Not necessarily. I had Xerks down to his last city, & he still wouldn't give me Nationalism for peace. (Didn't really want it that much, but I was curious to see if I could euchre it out of him.)

kk

 

[Death_Machine]

Not necessarily. I had Xerks down to his last city, & he still wouldn't give me Nationalism for peace. (Didn't really want it that much, but I was curious to see if I could euchre it out of him.)

kk

I had that happen with the Chinese & Facsism, but it seems to be the exception & not the rule in my experience. I guess I had lied to & cheated the AI so much that they knew they were dead if they gave it or not.

 

[DWetzel]

I kind of like playing with Carthage, though I can't say I describe them as a particularly strong civ in any one area. I think they just fit my playing style (builder with the occasional strategic war) pretty well.

Let's start with the UU--the Hurloon Minotaur of units. The Numidian Mercenary is a weird unit in that it's a defensive unit that also got an attack boost. The bad news is that it's pretty expensive at 30 shieids. The good news is that it's a versatile and long-lasting unit. Depending on circumstances, these make awesome barb hunters, fearsome enemy pillagers, stout defenders that are effective even through the era of knights, and occasionally attacking units in the right circumstances (did that knight just redline and retreat? Might be worth taking a shot at him!). However, they really aren't great at any of these things. But they're flexible, and you can trigger a Golden Age in a variety of ways if you want to do that.

The trait combo is also interesting, but can be very useful in the right circumstances. Industrious is never a bad thing to have in any circumstances, and Seafaring is very useful on the right sort of map. Carthage starts off with two VERY handy early techs to trade in Alphabet and Masonry, which allows the Seafaring civ to set themselves up in some very nice early tech brokering situations. It also enables the Philosophy slingshot very easily.

On another side note, if I get Ivory as Carthage, I'm doing cartwheels. Unique to Carthage and France, the early tech pair allows immediate research on Mathematics if you want to go that route--which will almost certainly be a monopoly tech. If you have Ivory, it allows for the almost immediate construction of the Statue of Zeus, which is of course great for the military boost but is also quite handy for those of you in a 20k cultural mode. Going for Math right away is a gamble that you will be able to find other civs to trade with, but if you do they will almost certainly have those low cost techs (Pottery, Ceremonial Burial, and Bronze Working) that you should be able to trade for on the cheap.

 

[darski]

I too like playing with Carthage. I do like that NM and I love the extra movement point for my curraghs or galleys while exploring.

Industrious is my favourite trait in the whole bunch.

They can be a strong Civ if you get the right circumstances.

 

[del62]

today i signed a peace treaty getting all available techs and cash, traded my repulic for their last available tech, this caused them to go into anarchy he he he, and then waited till their remaining 3 cities were at least 2 in size or had a cultural expansion (their capital) and wiped them out, basically the statue of zeus saved me from a difficult start position, now i have a large island with 3 types of luxuries, 2 iron and 2 saltpeter and have met spain who are behind in tech, it is around 1000 ad.

 

[Spoonwood]

On another side note, if I get Ivory as Carthage, I'm doing cartwheels. Unique to Carthage and France, the early tech pair allows immediate research on Mathematics if you want to go that route--which will almost certainly be a monopoly tech.

Hmmmmm... where did you learn that one DWetzel? Alright... you probably knew that before, but anyways. Good point on that though... something probably not many people know at first and probably some vets around here miss it too.

 

[DWetzel]

Hmmmmm... where did you learn that one DWetzel? Alright... you probably knew that before, but anyways. Good point on that though... something probably not many people know at first and probably some vets around here miss it too.

Yes, you're right.

 

[timerover51]

Hmm, forgot that was one reason why I modified a couple of maps, Ptolemy's being the main one, to have North African elephants near Carthage. The Ancient Cavalry definitely come in handy, as you do not have to have horses to build them. One of the few times that I go for something else besides Ironworking as the first tech. Also why I have in one mod Carthaginian War Elephants, since they used them quite extensively. Have them available with Horseback Riding. Ancient Cavalry and War Elephants make a nasty combination to use on some poor unsuspecting AI.

 

[Spoonwood]

You can find a link to a review of Carthage here. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=87014

 

[del62]

thanks for the link Doug

All is going well now, I am in the modern age and am going for a space race victory, though I have the Aztecs to deal with in the meantime, a very ungrateful bunch