having touble grasping the basics

[adecoy95]

im playing on noble, and im having a terrible time trying to just survive!

im just having the worst time figuring things out.

one problem i am having is how do i get industrial citys to grow? i cant get my industrial city past level 5

most of my citys wont grow at all!

another problem i am having is keeping nearby civs friendly

some time into the middle of the game, my research speed just fell, and couldent recover, and my citys are starving!

i have a saved game here, that i was loosing, if anyone has any tips i would greatly appreciate.

screenshots

me staging a counter attack, but while this was happening a second army is on top of me,

my industrial city

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

First key point - I've drawn a shape around Amsterdam. That's the "fat cross" - the total circle of tiles that citizens of amsterdam can work. That nice rice farm, for example, can't be worked by any of the citizens in that city.

In fact, you've got four very nice tiles (marked in red and orange) that none of your cities are using. if you were to put a new city on the red and orange square, and replace the fort on the wheat with a farm, you would have almost instantly a very nice production city.


The reasons that your cities aren't growing is that too many tiles that have good food don't have any improvements on them. "Food is life" - as a rule, you normally want to improve green tiles before brown ones. Sometimes, the green tiles are hiding under jungles (which can be cut down once you have discovered Iron Working), but if you were to put cottages on those tiles, your cities could grow again.


The other thing to notice is that you have a lot of very nice land, both inside your borders and just outside it, that you aren't taking advantage of at all. Settlers and Workers are urgent; you can easily settle another 7-10 cities.

Claim the easy land, become the biggest baddest bully on the block, THEN worry about attacking people 25 turns away.

 

[adecoy95]

i dident realize jungles hid treasures, on the thing it only says it produces one food : /

 

[cripp7]

try taking the notes from the last post and replaying from the beginning. I think you will find it be easier if the replay the same game. You do have too many tiles that are unimproved, "food is life." Always remember that fact, because without food, you cannot grow (just like in real life)

 

[Single Malt]

I had a quick look at your save. Huge map, 5 or 6 cities at 1500AD, 5 workers, poor city placement (which VOU pointed out). If you are new to the game, it is advisable to play standard size maps, as they play very differently. AIs are closer, and you learn to expand quicker.

At 1500AD on a huge map, you should have 15 good cities at least. Also when choosing city sites, at least one high yield food tile should be in the BFC (which VOU highlighted on Amsterdam), preferably two.

You are at war, and you have very, VERY low unit count. Cathy will probably kill you anyway. In this game, get peace, and start building workers and settlers, and expand. One city should constantly build units, as you are lagging in power to all bar Wan Kon (who is always a weakling). Your stack is a little small too, it looks like the puny thing an ai comes up with in an intercontinental invasion.

I never checked civics, are you using slavery? Use two pop whips to finish buildings and units, then grow to happy cap, and whip when the anger wears off. This is only good with a good food surplus.

You need about 15 worker more, and 10 cities more. Also some cities are not connected, and others are working too many unimproved tiles.

Finally, check the War Academy for strategy articles and drop into Noble's Club XXVIII Gandhi (shameless plug) where you can join in, post checkpoints and get advice on what to do. Or just read others games. A good way to learn is to do so with your peers

Edit: Use ctrl+R to show resource bubbles, it makes it much easier to see resources

 

[zyphyr]

i dident realize jungles hid treasures,

The hidden treasure is a tile that doesn't suck (or at least sucks less).

 

[Zubbus]

Civ4 is actually very hard. Each single difficulty level upwards can be a long progressive journey for a lot of us (let's say 20+ games). So if you ARE new do have some fun with the lower difficulty first.

Yep, and chop off the jungles to give yourself more useful tiles. Building farms next to a river is good. (For 1 reason, that is the only place you can build a farm until you get civil service.)

 

[adecoy95]

windmills and water wheels seem to add +1 of two resources, if i build a windmill on a tile instead of a farm, is it a better investment? they both say they add +1 food, but windmill usually adds a hammer or a gold

 

[Zubbus]

Yes, for now, so it's probably a good idea. I think windmill can only go on hills though. Farms will have other benefits later on. But we don't have to worry about it for now.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Looks like the main issue in this game is drastic under-expansion. You should aim to have at least five cities built before 1 AD on all except the smallest map sizes (and definitely on the larger ones). Past 1500 AD, you should really be looking at 15-20 cities minimum - especially on a map like the one you've chosen, with so much available land!

So the best advice I can probably offer is to build more Settlers. Also, I suggest you click the sixth button from the left above the minimap (the second button from the right), which makes the positions of resources a lot clearer - as you can see in VoiceOfUnreason's screenshot. Try to settle near as many of these resources as possible! Check the civilopedia (top right button on the game screen) if you're not sure what a particular resource does - I think it'll help a lot in making you realise just how good they can be.

Aside from that, I suggest reading a few walkthroughs of Civ4 to give you a better feel for the game. In particular, Sisiutil's Strategy Guide for Beginners is an excellent document - well worth the time to check out if you're relatively new to Civ4 (and even if you're not!).

 

[NonPrayinMantis]

1) Growing cities need food!: Food comes from farms which provide +1 food to the underlying terrain. Your production city is not growing because it has no farms. Take your 1 worker, build more, and farm those two jungle tiles ASAP. Switch the citizen off the gold mine to the new farm when built and that will increase food income by +3. You have lots of cottages, which can be good, but you also have very few farms to feed the citizens to work them.

2) You're not building the right things in your cities: Why are you building a capitol in your production city when you have a perfectly good capitol 7 tiles to the south! Plus, you have an unnecessary aquaduct and theatre in your production city, and the only production building, the forge, has not even been built.

3) You need to build settlers and workers STAT!: You have way to few cities and too much unsettled land. There is no need to invade the AI's a long distance away when you have perfectly good unused territory next door. Workers are also very important, you should have at least 1 or as many as two workers per city.

4) Put your limited military to good use: I noticed that Amsterdam has no military unit in it. You need to have at least 1 military unit in every city or you will have additional unhappiness there. Place your military units in your newly settled cities.

NPM

 

[NonPrayinMantis]

windmills and water wheels seem to add +1 of two resources, if i build a windmill on a tile instead of a farm, is it a better investment? they both say they add +1 food, but windmill usually adds a hammer or a gold

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If your city has food problems, then a farm is the best build. If your city has production problems, then build a watermill or a workshop is best. Windmills can only be built on hills, but most of the time you will want to mine these. Windmills are only really useful to provide more food than mines if you city has few good farm sites.

In general:

Grassland farm: 3 (biology adds +1 food to this)
Grassland watermill: 211(RP (replaceable parts) adds +1 hammers, EL (electricity) +2 commerce)
Grassland cottage: 21 (this site will increase commerce when used - up to +7 with Printing Press and Free Speech)
Grassland workshop: 11 (Guilds, Chemistry, and Caste System all add +1 hammer; State Property +1 food)
Grassland hill windmill: 211 (RP adds +1 hammer, EL +1 commerce)
Grassland hill mine: 13 (RR (railroad) adds +1 hammer)

Plains farm: 21 (biology adds +1 food to this)
Plains watermill: 121(RP adds +1 hammer, EL +2 commerce)
Plains cottage: 111 (this site will increase commerce when used - up to +7 with Printing Press and Free Speech)
Plains workshop: 2 (Guilds, Chemistry, and Caste System all add +1 hammer; State Property +1 food)
Plains hill windmill: 121 (RP adds +1 hammer, EL +1 commerce)
Plains hill mine: 4 (RR adds +1 hammer)

Tundra and Ice sites are much worse to use unless they have specials on them.

Notice that only the grassland farm adds food to your city, other tiles are food neutral (2 food) or cost food to use (1 food or none). This is because citizens (population in your cities) cost 2 food.

NPM

 

[NonPrayinMantis]

Also note that is not the same thing as . Adding to a city by building aqueducts, grocers, graneries, etc. can only increase growth if is greater than the current of a city. Extra over the limit is worthless.

NPM

 

[Foamy7]

One very basic thing I noticed... since you said you didn't realize that jungle "hid treasures"...

When you begin a game, hit Ctrl+R. This toggles the resource display, which pops up handy pictures of them wherever they appear. This should help you discern where to place your cities where they can be most advantageous.

These tiles should always be developed by a worker ASAP, and used by your city ASAP. Build more workers!!!

Other than that, everyone has offered great advice so far.

 

[henrebotha]

Maybe you should try and play the tutorial.

 

[sfnhltb]

You might also drop down to an easier level while you learn the game - Noble is playing at an even level with the AI (neither of you get any particular bonuses/penalties), which is a fine starting point once you have a handle on how the game works. What you might also want to do is to play some duel maps (after the tutorial as mentioned), as the much smaller map makes for a fast game where you can learn what works and doesn't relatively quickly. You only have a few cities to deal with, and will soon meet the AI, so if you are making the wrong choices you will quickly find out. Playing Huge maps means that you are mostly playing in a sandbox until the later part of the game, and then suddenly you find you are massively behind in development/tech/military.

 

[Roxlimn]

The main problem with the gameplay that I can detect is food - his cities don't nearly have enough of it.

I'd say that food is the foremost priority in Civ because food is what gives you pop points, and pop points is your most basic resource.

Concentrate on founding cities that have at least one, preferrably two food resources that the citizens can work. Then improve and work those tiles first.

Floodplains are very food-rich and can count as special resources for this purpose. Once you know how to predict and control city growth blindfolded, you will probably win this level, since everything else seems to be adequate.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The hidden treasure is a tile that doesn't suck (or at least sucks less).

The worst tiles that can possibly be under a jungle is a basic grassland tile. That's a decent tile! Anything else and it's only better.

The drawback is that it takes time/effort to clear jungle.

 

[adecoy95]

wow, alot of great replys, thanks for all the advice!

ill try to find time to play a new game today, and i will let everyone know how i did

 

[Comrade-Deux]

I also noticed the fort on the wheat outside of the cross. This sceams 'automated workers'. As a rule do not ever, ever, ever (unless you're one of the diety level players on the board) automate workers. This is probably why your land is improved so poorly.