HC-03: The Ottomanation

[slobberinbear]

Istanbul's border will pop in 7 turns, allowing us to work the southern horse tile. By that time the worker should have finished the road to Edirne and be on the way to the horses.

My vote is therefore to skip archery and build chariots out of Edirne, whipped/chopped if necessary.

What buildings do we see in Istanbul in the immediate future? Just a library + Hammam?

What about Edirne? Granary + barracks + Hammam?

Last point: did a little happiness math. If we get to CoL and get Confucianism first and back up to get Polytheism, Priesthood, Monotheism and Monarchy, Istanbul's happy cap would be 12 with 3 garrison troops and a Confucian temple. At size 12, Istanbul can easily support 5 or 6 scientists under Caste System.

Throw in Civil Service, and you have: Hereditary Rule/Bureaucracy/Caste System/Decentralization/Organized Religion. Big cities, great production and research.

 

[Hackapell]

Everything seems to be going OK. Slobberin's idea for a third city is great, since IIRC, Istanbul will block off the north on it's own once it's borders pop, thus negating the need for a rice horse city, although that may become a possibility later on.
Teching to Col and currency, along with our Hammans is a good path to take, but I wonder whether or not it would just be easier to backfill those techs later, as I have a sneaking supicision that there's someone to the north of us.
I have not seen a full map yet of our continent; can someone show that in their next post; either slobberin or stuge?

 

[slobberinbear]

Everything seems to be going OK. Slobberin's idea for a third city is great, since IIRC, Istanbul will block off the north on it's own once it's borders pop, thus negating the need for a rice horse city, although that may become a possibility later on.
Teching to Col and currency, along with our Hammans is a good path to take, but I wonder whether or not it would just be easier to backfill those techs later, as I have a sneaking supicision that there's someone to the north of us.
I have not seen a full map yet of our continent; can someone show that in their next post; either slobberin or stuge?

Here's the continent at the moment.



As you can see, the north looks like a dead end, but we'll know for sure in 4-6 turns after Achmed finishes his sweep. I think Qin is our only neighbor, and he's a long way away. I think we should take advantage of the relative isolation by teching up.

As far as blocking Qin, I'm going to take the radical position that we block him off far to the south by taking that bronze spot.

A few other observations:

Spoiler :

1. We need Civil Service. Many of our cities lack fresh water and long river systems for optimal cottaging. We may have to chain-farm large stretches of the continent.
2. Once Civil Service is online, we will be in a great situation for a Specialist Economy. I especially think Istanbul, the north horse/crab site, and the jungle sites would all be great SE cities, leaving Edirne and the Sheep city as production cities.
3. I have a proposed tech order:

• 
  finish Writing
  Mathematics
  Fishing
  Currency
  Code of Laws
  Alphabet
  Iron Working *
  Civil Service
  Polytheism *
  Priesthood * (assuming we got Confucianism; we want temples)
  Masonry *
  Monotheism * (we want Organized Religion)
  Monarchy * (we want Hereditary Rule)
  Paper
  Education
  Liberalism
  Gunpowder

* we should try to trade for these techs if possible

 

[Hackapell]

Here's the continent at the moment.

View attachment 161020

As you can see, the north looks like a dead end, but we'll know for sure in 4-6 turns after Achmed finishes his sweep. I think Qin is our only neighbor, and he's a long way away. I think we should take advantage of the relative isolation by teching up.

Agreed, makes perfect sense.

As far as blocking Qin, I'm going to take the radical position that we block him off far to the south by taking that bronze spot.

I have followed U sun's thread abbout agressive city sites, and I am willing to do this as soon as we have the following things:

1. Col(more on this following)
2. Preferably close to currency
3. All of the northern shore clear, Location of Qin known.

Col for religion and therefore culture,along with our cheap courthouses.
Currency is always nice to have, and IIRC if all our proposed cities are coastal, building the Glighthouse or taking it from qin at some point would help our economy immeasureably
We need to be sure that there aren't greener pastures to the north, and knowing where an industrious leader ensures an easy conquest plan.

A few other observations:


1. We need Civil Service. Many of our cities lack fresh water and long river systems for optimal cottaging. We may have to chain-farm large stretches of the continent.

2. Once Civil Service is online, we will be in a great situation for a Specialist Economy. I especially think Istanbul, the north horse/crab site, and the jungle sites would all be great SE cities, leaving Edirne and the Sheep city as production cities.

these are all good ideas, especailly seeing as CS permits Bueraucracy. Will we have to move our capital? If so, Where? Something to consider.

3. I have a proposed tech order:

• 
  finish Writing
  Mathematics
  Fishing
  Currency
  Code of Laws
  Alphabet
  Iron Working *
  Civil Service
  Polytheism *
  Priesthood * (assuming we got Confucianism; we want temples)
  Masonry *
  Monotheism * (we want Organized Religion)
  Monarchy * (we want Hereditary Rule)
  Paper
  Education
  Liberalism
  Gunpowder

* we should try to trade for these techs if possible

I'd switch currency with Col, seeing as Confucianism is founded circa 250 AD on Noble.
Also, seeing as we may be stuck with just qin, Pointy-stick reasearch is called for to milk techs.
Also, I would squezze in lit somewhere, just becuase the Glib is so strong.
just some thoughts.

 

[slobberinbear]

There's only two ways to Code of Laws -- Writing and (Currency or Priesthood). I suggested the "northern" route to take advantage of our desire for mathematics, but we could double back and get polytheism + priesthood I suppose. My reason for the currency route? Often the early religious techs can be gathered via trade, and frankly Priesthood has no value to us without a religion, which Code of Laws gives us.

One more point about being alone with Qin: he may be our only Janissary target. If we meet everyone else after Astronomy, we'll be likely using rifles.

 

[Hackapell]

Oh, you need currency before Col? My bad

 

[slobberinbear]

Oh, you need currency before Col? My bad

Well, the options to CoL are (1) Writing + Currency or (2) Writing + Priesthood.

I was just trying to leverage our Mathematics choice and avoid taking (admittedly cheaper) religious techs that we don't need yet and can easily trade for later. If we decide to go the SE route, markets will be great in our Merchant/Wealth SE cities.

By the way, our Unique Building rocks. What a great all-purpose building. If we want, we can take it another step and build the Hanging Gardens in Edirne, say.

 

[slobberinbear]

possible dotmaps, pending the discovery of Iron and further exploration of the north:

 

[Hackapell]

those look good, as usual. I'm really hoping that there are later resources, becuase otherwise, we have been dealt some really bad land.
All this uncluttered jungle is making me suspicious. Is Qin, Perhaps, sitting on the resources we need? Will Stuge find out?
The answer to these questions and more shortly.

 

[mice]

With the lack of Happy resources we may have to go to Hrule and a few chariots in all our cities. Our early cottages will get us there tout suite (sp?), and of course the Hammam.

It all sounds OK to me. I wouldn't be surprised if Quinn's land comes up for grabs just as we get to Janniseries.

Erdine for chariots, Istanbul for settlers, workers and commerce.

 

[TriviAl]

[Lurking Comment!

I'm enjoying the start of this game a lot. I have the same problem with Mehmet - looks great in theory, but my games with him always go wrong!

Anyway, looking at your tech path, notice that it skips sailing. I've had huge mileage out of getting that fairly early and pushing out a galley - if there's a land link to more civs it can really help? My inclination would be to slot it into your tech list, probably after CoL.

Good luck and I'll keep reading this!

[/Heads off to lurk again. Whistling!

 

[slobberinbear]

Good point. Sailing is usually a tech that you can obtain in a trade, and is almost always worth getting at some point.

 

[stuge]

Achmed

The A-unit completed sweeping the north, revealing a couple of seafood plots.

Achmed also ran into a barb warrior but bested them without trouble.

Management

Writing and masonry were learnt, with our sights now on math, with 16 turns to go.

I whipped the settler in Istanbul for two pop with maximum overflow. Next up was a granary which was completed just in time to allow Istanbul start training a worker when it grew to size four. Three turns to go.

I also whipped the monument in Edirne and used the overflow to build a granary. The city is currently building barracks but should switch to chariots when the horse pasture completes in four turns.

Our next city

If we want to go for blocking Qin, here's the land around the copper.

I'd settle on the plains hill 1E of the warrior. It's awfully far away, though would make a nice production city down the line, capable of churning out troops and ships.

The next guy might want this.

 

[slobberinbear]

Fish! We have fish!

Here's another possible dotmap of the north. It's a little cramped, and gets us a lot of water tiles, but here it is:



The horse site went from nice to bad, but we squeeze in two more cities and pick up the fish and second crab tile, and have very little unused land on the peninsula. The alternative would be to simply ignore the fish, and just place two cities in that space instead of three, giving them each more land tiles to work while getting the horse, pigs, and two crabs.

Looks like Qin is quite a distance from us. That suggests we should REX and courthouse up. What the RNG taketh away (not a lot of resources), the RNG giveth (lots of land).

I like a blocking city site right where the southern warrior is currently stationed. It misses one forest but gets river access for fresh water/levees.

 

[mice]

That's a tough call on the cities to the north. I would recommend going for the three sites but just putting a unit to clear the fog if needed and settle it later down the track. Priority being the copper locale.

so Stuge recommends the plains hill 1 E of the warrior, and Bear recommends right on the warrior. Which is the best? they have the same irrigatability from what we can see, and are both coastal. dunno.

 

[Hackapell]

I vote for Stuge's spot, seeing as it's a plains hill=more initial production and it totally blocks off the northern part of land without a border pop. While we lose the 3, the 2 from exp make up for that, and plus since we're in warlords there's no Levees available, so settling on a river is not a strong of a move. As always, more scouting is needed.
In other news, qin founded hinduism! that's pretty late to be founding it, which suggests he still has but one city, and probably few military techs. maybe Alpha becomes more important now to pick those up for chea, non-military techs? Most of our cities are going to be coastal, so we should look at Glight or colossus in the near wonder future. Slobberin looks right on target with those cities.
And the roster:
Hackapell-on deck
mice-
slobberinbear-
stuge-just played
pigswill-UP NOW

 

[pigswill]

Got it.

Some thoughts: we ain't going to trade much if Qin's the only AI around which means that alphabet isn't a huge priority. I think we need to get IW next coz it will help in dot-mapping and jungle-clearing. If we're going to rex then our cities won't get too big very early: Istanbul builds settlers/workers and Edirne builds chariots/warriors etc.

Will need to recall southern explorer to fogbust settler to copperland.

In terms of wonders Glight would benefit from having some trade partners, Colossus needs MC of course and would mean deferring astronomy in the longer term. Colossus would be better of the two. We could also go for the pyramids for representation.

 

[slobberinbear]

Edirne could build the Pyramids, I suppose. There is enough wood for chopping and hills for mining to finish it, but then we'd have to get another production city up and running to make units. Representation would mesh nicely with our early/mid game SE plans.

We could then build Colossus in the copper city, which would incidentally help with cultural border wars with Qin.

What city are you thinking of settling next, Pigswill?

 

[slobberinbear]

Anyone there?

*crickets chirping*

 

[pigswill]

*cricket chirping,
grey clouds, scattered raindrops.
Bop! Sudden silence.*

Played fifteen turns (I think) up to 1000bc.

Pretty quiet. Our chinese friend approaches us:

Of course our friend, why would we want to stop you wandering freely?

Warrior having headed north to meet worker and settler and cleared a trail through the jungles reaches the safety of the hills.

Spoiler :

Hides in woods, survives nasty barb and Ankara is safely settled in 1120bc:
[

After worker is finished in Istanbul I start on a chariot while city grows to 5 pop then resume settler production.

Edirne whips a chariot as soon as reaches pop2, bit of overflow into barracks, may be worth repeating or maybe just work farm and mine and build conventionally.

Maths is due next turn.

Spoiler :

Ankara has chopped a monument, due next turn.