Health and Happyness balance issues

[BlueTemplar]

One reason to get more than one religion is to get + from those monasteries. If you remove + from them, that makes additional religions less interesting to get.

 

[KingArthur666]

One reason to get more than one religion is to get + from those monasteries. If you remove + from them, that makes additional religions less interesting to get.

Yes, I can see that, and different people have different play styles. I was just thinking that if you had multiple religions in a city, some people would go to one temple, and other people would go to others. Let's say you had three religions in your city. One that 50% of your people followed, and two that 25% each followed (just trying to keep things simple.) If you built the monastery for your 50% religion then only half your people would be getting the health benefits, but if you built all three monasteries then all your people would get the benefits. As it is right now if you build all three monasteries you get three times the health benefits. I don't know too many people that belong to three different religions myself. Just the way I think about it.
I generally like to keep just one religion in my cities. Any other religion that spreads automatically I just ignore. I generally don't build their buildings either. Although I have recently discovered the Egyptian religion buildings grant unique promotions to units built in the city, so I've started building those temples where I can. I might have to try converting to the religion in my next game to try all those funny temples.

 

[BlueGenie]

Heh, well, King Arthur, just because 50% of your people belong to a religion doesn't mean they all automatically seek healing help from the monastery belonging to their religion. More monasteries means easier access for all people to seek out health issue help there.
Hmm, a solution to that one might be to keep the +1 Health bonus from Civic (and the inherent +10% science) only on State Religion Monasteries but being able to build one extra per 5 population in the city, up to a maximum of course, maybe around 5.
Meh, probably a bad idea.

Cheers

 

[JosEPh_II]

One reason to get more than one religion is to get + from those monasteries. If you remove + from them, that makes additional religions less interesting to get.

I disagree. Monasteries are early game necessities, Especially since DH made them go Obsolete by Ren Era (I forgot which tech right now). And I absolutely hate that this was done. IMHO monasteries should Never go obsolete, nor lose their research and health benefits. A reduction by Modern Era I can understand and stomach, but not obsolescence.

And the AI does not go for Extra religions because of the monasteries health benefits. The player or AI that is the Tech leader will inadvertently found the majority of the religions Because the Tech tree pathing Allows it. Only 1 Significant change has been done to this Pathing problem and that was the breakup of the Poly/Mono/Buddhism run. More needs to be done.

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I disagree. Monasteries are early game necessities, Especially since DH made them go Obsolete by Ren Era (I forgot which tech right now). And I absolutely hate that this was done. IMHO monasteries should Never go obsolete, nor lose their research and health benefits. A reduction by Modern Era I can understand and stomach, but not obsolescence.

I have not made any monastery building go obsolete. I have only adjusted some of their bonuses. I have made some of the extra monastery add on buildings go obsolete in the renaissance mostly because the complaints about excess food.

And the AI does not go for Extra religions because of the monasteries health benefits. The player or AI that is the Tech leader will inadvertently found the majority of the religions Because the Tech tree pathing Allows it. Only 1 Significant change has been done to this Pathing problem and that was the breakup of the Poly/Mono/Buddhism run. More needs to be done.

JosEPh

Suggestions? Or links to suggestions.

 

[BlueTemplar]

The player or AI that is the Tech leader will inadvertently found the majority of the religions Because the Tech tree pathing Allows it.

Depends how much lead you have compared to other players, and what techs you consider more critical than others... What I like in C2C is that there's a lot of freedom in choosing your tech paths, and except some critical techs, the best order in which to get the techs will probably vary a lot from game to game...

 

[JosEPh_II]

I have not made any monastery building go obsolete. I have only adjusted some of their bonuses. I have made some of the extra monastery add on buildings go obsolete in the renaissance mostly because the complaints about excess food.

My Apologies then DH I could've sworn you stated that you were making Monasteries go Obsolete. Again my Apologies. (I'm Sorry Man! )

(JC's and Monasteries are My Personal Untouchables that I don't ever want messed with. I get cranky when anyone changes them cause I think they are a part of this game that is Right/True/Cornerstone/Ten Commandment type things! That's just the way I feel about it.)

Suggestions? Or links to suggestions.

I've wanted to go thru the techtree and make suggestions for when and where a new religion should show up. The Poly/Mono break up was a very Obvious one that I had even raised with Zappara back in the day. But I've not made myself do it for the rest. I actually think the earliest are rather okay. But by the time we get to the placement of the Core Original religions then the pathing lends itself to the Tech leader, imho.

Bluetemplar wrote:Depends how much lead you have compared to other players, and what techs you consider more critical than others... What I like in C2C is that there's a lot of freedom in choosing your tech paths, and except some critical techs, the best order in which to get the techs will probably vary a lot from game to game...

When you have more than 10 games of C2C under your belt you will begin to see that the later religions (After Bhuddism) are almost Always founded by the Tech leader. Especially if that Tech Leader Is an AI and has a Spiritual leader. We've been discussing this off and on since version 17 iirc.

 

[Koshling]

When you have more than 10 games of C2C under your belt you will begin to see that the later religions (After Bhuddism) are almost Always founded by the Tech leader. Especially if that Tech Leader Is an AI and has a Spiritual leader. We've been discussing this off and on since version 17 iirc.

How about splitting the religious track of ther tech tree along (say) mono/poly theistic lines in such a way that the religious-oriented branches don't come back together for LONG time, so it would be almost impssible to lead both/all of them? You could have multiple branches which ONLY have religions (and very closely related) techs on them, and hook thm into the main tree with preReq AND techs on main-branch (i.e. - none religious) techs to space them out and provide SOME dependency on the other techs...

 

[JosEPh_II]

That's a sound idea. And it's sort of what I was thinking along for the religions. I just have not went thru the Tech tree to sort it out and then post.

Is the tech tree chart that hydro or someone made still available and somewhat current?
Edit: Hydro's chart shows the Tech but not the dependencies Or what the tech gives. This may take a bit to piece the Tech tree together.

JosEPh

 

[philipschall]

Current techs that could do without the happiness bonus:
Language
Oral Tradition

Current buildings that could do without the happiness bonus:
Crafts Hut
Seamstress's hut
Dog Breeder
All animal buildings
Tattoo Hut

Buildings that could have their happiness nerfed:
Dance Hut
Music Hut

Suggested removal/ replacement of winery, distillery buildings

Health:

Current techs that could do without the health bonus:
Fire Making
Cooking

Current Buildings that could do without the health bonus:
Imu
Dining hall
Shaman hut (It would as be best if the 25% after growth property was removed, as it allows for very fast city growth when combined with a granary. Or shaman hut goes obsolete at pottery?)
Community gardens

This review is just of the first two eras. I'm sure there are more examples, but this is a start. I also like the idea of resource categories, with diminishing returns of bonuses of both happiness and health for like resources.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@philipschall

Much of these I disagree with since they are more or less the only benefit of many of them. I say we wait until the diseases and crime are put in before nerfing the techs and buildings. Because it would suck to take them out only to have to put them back in because there was too much disease or people became too unhappy from crime.

 

[gcaliber]

I do agree that shaman hut + granary is overpowered. I usually put off obsoleting shaman hut for a very long time because of it.

 

[BlueTemplar]

I do agree that shaman hut + granary is overpowered.

IIRC those percentages multiply, do not add, right?

 

[philipschall]

In my games it looks as though they add, I'm almost always getting half food for the next pop growth. Though my eyes could be deceiving me.

 

[BlueGenie]

Multiply. 30+(70*0.25)18.75 is still 48.75% so together they almost store half. Very powerful combo. Nothing comes close to it for eons.

Cheers