Heaven is a communist utopia

[Pasi Nurminen]

- All christians are equal in heaven; God does not prefer or favour one over the other.

- The more virtuous a christian was in life, the greater the material rewards await him in heaven. One who totally adheres to God's will receives more material rewards than one who sins completely.

- There is no pain, desire, greed, lust, and other negative emotions which effect the destruction of humanity on earth. In fact, because the soul leaves the body, the "desires of the flesh" no longer affect us, and "human nature" (desires of the flesh) are no longer a detriment.

- While there are material rewards in heaven, these cannot be used for any practical purpose; there is nothing to buy, and nothing to sell. Merely things to be enjoyed at one's leisure.

This is the conclusion I have drawn from both what I was taught and what I have read from the Bible. FYI, I go to a pentecostalist church, if that really makes any difference.

Feel free to debate.

 

[SolarKnight]

Yes, you may be right, if this heaven place even exists.

(BTW What is the point of debating if you already claim victory, if that is the case, the mods will probably close the thread soon and punish you for spam.)

not trying to do your job mods - sorry

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

I was exaggerating.

And please no comments such as "if heaven exists." Those only exist to troll. If you want to discuss heaven as it theoretically exists, fine by me, but none of those one line posts please.

 

[storealex]

What awaits humans in heaven is irrellevant. It's what we do while still alive that matters. Personally Im kinda christian, and I don't speculate about heaven. How should I know what's up there anyway?

 

[Plotinus]

I don't know where you're getting your notion of heaven from. You can't have done much reading of the Bible if you think that's what it teaches!

Matthew 18:4 and 19:28 suggest that everyone is not equal in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Furthermore, Matthew 20:1-16 suggests that everyone is rewarded equally in the Kingdom of Heaven, no matter what they did in life.

1 Corinthians 15:42-49 states that people do have bodies after the resurrection, although they are spiritual bodies rather than physical ones. There is no notion, in Christianity, of "the soul" leaving "the body" - rather, you die, and later are raised again, together with your body.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

What awaits humans in heaven is irrellevant. It's what we do while still alive that matters. Personally Im kinda christian, and I don't speculate about heaven. How should I know what's up there anyway?

MAT 5:12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for
in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

6:20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust
do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.

HEB 10:34 You sympathized with those in prison and joyfully accepted the
confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had
better and lasting possessions.

REV 2:16 Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun
will not beat upon them, nor any scorching heat.

21:11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a
very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal.

18 The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as
glass.

19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of
precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the
third chalcedony, the fourth emerald,

21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl.
The great street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass.

22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and
the Lamb are its temple.

23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the
glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.

It's all in the good book.

 

[Iggy]

Pasi. Whose imagination produced this scenario, yours or is it from a religious text I have not seen?

In your scenerio there are no emotions which would aid man to enjoy whatever material rewards he received, then there is no benefit from receiving them anyway.

 

[Sweeney Todd]

And please no comments such as "if heaven exists." Those only exist to troll.

What some people call trolling now-a-days is just completely proposterous.

"Heaven as a communitst uptopia" therefore seems like enough of a troll to ban you for...5 days is it?

 

[Sweeney Todd]

By the way Pasi Nurminen, quoting the bible to someone that damns the bible is futile. Have you anything else to quote from?

 

[storealex]

It's all in the good book.

So? There's lot's of BS and contradictions in the Bible, so you cannot hold the Bible as absolute because of that, you simply have to interpretate it. What's the message? What would God have me do?

 

[bobgote]

- All christians are equal in heaven; God does not prefer or favour one over the other.

Heaven is an absolute monarchy. dunno how your communist utopia goes with a deity leading it.

- The more virtuous a christian was in life, the greater the material rewards await him in heaven. One who totally adheres to God's will receives more material rewards than one who sins completely.

the idea is that you don't have material rewards in heaven. nor material.

- There is no pain, desire, greed, lust, and other negative emotions which effect the destruction of humanity on earth. In fact, because the soul leaves the body, the "desires of the flesh" no longer affect us, and "human nature" (desires of the flesh) are no longer a detriment.

desires of the flesh is not the only description of negative emotion. reckon that Lucifer got turfed out of heaven for some description of negative emotion there.

- While there are material rewards in heaven, these cannot be used for any practical purpose; there is nothing to buy, and nothing to sell. Merely things to be enjoyed at one's leisure.

dunno how you can have material rewards if you don't think that our bodies will still be there.

By the way Pasi Nurminen, quoting the bible to someone that damns the bible is futile. Have you anything else to quote from?

a) talking about heaven to someone who doesn't believe in heaven is rather frivolous.
b) how can someone damn the bible without at least partly following that which it is based on?
c) this thread relies on a premise that heaven exists. it is really not beneficial but rather is spam to debate the premise of the thread.

Can we say for the benefit of staying on topic to assume that heaven does exist? You can debate the existance of heaven in countless other threads, or begin your own if you must.

 

[Sweeney Todd]

@ Bobgote

You said: It is spam to debate the premise of the thread.

That's not all that fair, that's just your opinion. It's just that Pasi Nurminen was talking about trolling if you question the existence of heaven.

 

[bobgote]

it is just my opinion. but it is pretty redundant to say:

i disagree, heaven is not a communist utopia because it does not exist.

pretty much pointless really.

however i'll leave it to the thread starter to say whether or not this is the case. hopefully he'll manage to say something before this turns into "Prove God Exists, Part 700"

 

[Sweeney Todd]

it is just my opinion. but it is pretty redundant to say:

i disagree, heaven is not a communist utopia because it does not exist.

pretty much pointless really.

however i'll leave it to the thread starter to say whether or not this is the case. hopefully he'll manage to say something before this turns into "Prove God Exists, Part 700"

If you can't stand the heat...

 

[The Last Conformist]

a) talking about heaven to someone who doesn't believe in heaven is rather frivolous.

Can be interesting, tho.

I don't believe in the existence of Donald Duck, but that doesn't mean I can't have an interesting discussion about him.

 

[bobgote]

Can be interesting, tho.

I don't believe in the existence of Donald Duck, but that doesn't mean I can't have an interesting discussion about him.

but we already have threads for that. well not donald duck...but you know.

and the thread doesn't say "debate the existance of heaven", but assumes heaven already exists.

 

[Plotinus]

Exactly. I don't believe in heaven, God, or anything related, but I make my living by talking about them!

 

[Plotinus]

and the thread doesn't say "debate the existance of heaven", but assumes heaven already exists.

It doesn't assume heaven exists - it's an examination of the notion of heaven. Whether it exists or not is totally irrelevant. Like I say, I don't believe it exists, but I still showed that Pasi's understanding of heaven isn't really based on the Bible by citing texts.

 

[The Last Conformist]

and the thread doesn't say "debate the existance of heaven", but assumes heaven already exists.

Certainly. The OP does however not state that non-believers aren't welcome, so there is no reason why non-believers who are ready to, for the sake of the discussion, assume the existence of heaven should not participitate.

 

[Iggy]

Well I am glad you are coming to a concord on that issue as I think you chaps are being a bit hard dragging poor old Donald Duck into all this.