Am I the only one disappointed that this "big" patch barely fixed any bugs?

No feature can't be "removed" by Civ7 from Civ6, because it's not an expansion, it's a new game, where all features are made from scratch.

Speaking about this particular example, separating civs and leaders and age split made this feature totally different. Owners of basic version have 10 civs per age, owners of more advanced versions have 11 per age and by the end of founders edition content flow we'll have 13 civs per age. With standard map now having 8 civs by default and larger maps coming soon in patches, ability to prevent any civs from appearing just will not work as before, because some map setups would eat all the available civs. It probably should make sense to block leaders, or maybe only allow it if duplicate civs are enabled... In any case, that's the feature which has to be planned from scratch.

Speaking about Songhai, I don't see them (or any other civ at the moment) as too overpowered to block. There are some bugs causing unexpected effects (like Carthage UU), but they are likely to be fixed soon together with some patches. So, the necessity of this feature in the coming future is quite questionable.
Their military bonus is pretty strong at the moment. It’s natural to want to exclude them from the game until the bug is fixed.

Outside of bugs, it’s quite normal to want to avoid X civilization for any YZ reason.

This would be a great toggle in the game setup, and I hope it’s included in the future.
 
Their military bonus is pretty strong at the moment. It’s natural to want to exclude them from the game until the bug is fixed.

Outside of bugs, it’s quite normal to want to avoid X civilization for any YZ reason.

This would be a great toggle in the game setup, and I hope it’s included in the future.
Especially if it automatically enabled duplicate civs (which is probably something they need to happen with larger maps anyways for anyone who wants to play a larger map without enough DLC)
 
Their military bonus is pretty strong at the moment. It’s natural to want to exclude them from the game until the bug is fixed.

Outside of bugs, it’s quite normal to want to avoid X civilization for any YZ reason.

This would be a great toggle in the game setup, and I hope it’s included in the future.
Especially if it automatically enabled duplicate civs (which is probably something they need to happen with larger maps anyways for anyone who wants to play a larger map without enough DLC)
Generally that's exactly what I'm talking about. This feature is something new, which is likely to come together with duplicate civs option. I'm pretty sure it's somewhere in the backlog for Civ7, but I don't understand why it's expected to be on launch.
 
About this patch. If someone like say, Xerxes disperses and IP that I'm befriending, why is it ** I ** show a -30 hit for the dispersal with the other AI?
Was it like that before? (I don't recall)

Taking a hit for beating the AI at befriending, sure. But not that. (since the only warning we get is "oh, you get a refund on some influece because someone dispersed the IP you were befriending. "

Oh, I saved 1 IP by plonking a unit on it. I couldn't do it for this one as they had a unit there.
(and he wiped out 2 on the other continent that I couldn't do jack about.)
 
About this patch. If someone like say, Xerxes disperses and IP that I'm befriending, why is it ** I ** show a -30 hit for the dispersal with the other AI?
Was it like that before? (I don't recall)
It's something many of us asked for in Civ 6, attacking my friend has consequences, in this case it's easier to go to war. You're not getting a hit you're getting an opportunity...
 
About this patch. If someone like say, Xerxes disperses and IP that I'm befriending, why is it ** I ** show a -30 hit for the dispersal with the other AI?
Was it like that before? (I don't recall)

Yes, it was like this before and it is intended behavior: Relations are symmetrical, so it does not matter whether you do it to them or they do it to you, the relationship will take the same hit. You could see it as your people getting mad at them, even if you are not mad yourself.
 
No feature can't be "removed" by Civ7 from Civ6, because it's not an expansion, it's a new game, where all features are made from scratch.

Speaking about this particular example, separating civs and leaders and age split made this feature totally different. Owners of basic version have 10 civs per age, owners of more advanced versions have 11 per age and by the end of founders edition content flow we'll have 13 civs per age. With standard map now having 8 civs by default and larger maps coming soon in patches, ability to prevent any civs from appearing just will not work as before, because some map setups would eat all the available civs. It probably should make sense to block leaders, or maybe only allow it if duplicate civs are enabled... In any case, that's the feature which has to be planned from scratch.

Speaking about Songhai, I don't see them (or any other civ at the moment) as too overpowered to block. There are some bugs causing unexpected effects (like Carthage UU), but they are likely to be fixed soon together with some patches. So, the necessity of this feature in the coming future is quite questionable.

Yes, as others have mentioned, I understand that implementing this feature in Civ VII might be complicated (though not impossible). At the very least, it should be feasible for the first age. I know I can manually select the leaders I want, but having a "pool of possible leaders" would be much better—especially since I enjoy the element of mystery in every match, and as already said by others I can't anyway "block" the AI to pick Songhai or another Age 2/3 Civ's that I would like to avoid.

That said, fixing existing bugs should be the priority and the most obvious solution for this problem, the 'pool selection' feature is secondary for me.


So your problem is that people have differing levels of leeway, and that this somehow translates into actionable efforts by the publisher wrt. allocating resource?

I think that regardless, a different level of tolerance is nowhere near acceptance, of any kind. Agree to disagree.

No, I don’t have an issue with people having different levels of leeway—that would be a strange problem to have, considering it’s obvious that people have varying standards. My issue is when the majority have an extremely low level of expectations for expensive AAA games. I think you—and probably 99% of people—would agree with this, since no one wants companies to release terrible products (yet they will, if people lower their standards enough to buy them anyway).

At the same time, the real difference between you, me, and many others is how we define "really low" expectations, which is, of course, subjective. From my first post in this thread, I’ve been explaining what that means to me, and that’s the main focus of this discussion (not if people can have different opinion, which is obvious to me, and not that "these things take time / might be more complicated than they look" is or isn't a valid opinion, which again means almost nothing in this context, and not even that I generally think that "people think bugs are acceptable", which is something I simply never stated).

As stated in the thread title, I was disappointed by this patch and wanted to gauge whether others here share my expectations. Given the review bombing Civ VII is receiving, it seems like a common sentiment in the gaming community, but I wasn’t sure if the same feeling was prevalent in this forum. Most importantly, since the developers sometimes read this forum, I wanted to express my concerns, hoping that if enough people agree, they will address these issues. An AAA game should not have untested features—or, worse, features that were tested and then ignored (like many of the bugs I've reported in these thread).

Anyway agree to disagree eventually
 
No, I don’t have an issue with people having different levels of leeway—that would be a strange problem to have, considering it’s obvious that people have varying standards. My issue is when the majority have an extremely low level of expectations for expensive AAA games.
I think you—and probably 99% of people—would agree with this, since no one wants companies to release terrible products (yet they will, if people lower their standards enough to buy them anyway).
People are having lower standards as a response to industry decline in the AA / AAA space. I agree that at some point it becomes untenable.

But we're discussing entertainment. People are ultimately still going to buy something that brings them some form of joy; escapism, competition, whatever they're looking for in a video game. It's very hard to say "never buy anything you might enjoy because it's rewarding a breaking industry". And even then that won't get to the non-hyper-online crowd (including myself as hyper online).

A bunch of the dads on the school run play games. Are into games. They know more about geopolitics through the news than they do anything about how the games industry works.

So how do we reasonably enact change? Can we? And if we can't (except by voicing our criticism), is it really fair to talk about what consumers consume in a system designed to maximise consumption?
An AAA game should not have untested features—or, worse, features that were tested and then ignored (like many of the bugs I've reported in these thread).
Ideally, yes. Practically, every single one does. This is not a good thing, but it's not unique to Firaxis nor is Firaxis going to be able to change it themselves. The problems are pretty structural (and often off-topic).
 
People are having lower standards as a response to industry decline in the AA / AAA space. I agree that at some point it becomes untenable.

But we're discussing entertainment. People are ultimately still going to buy something that brings them some form of joy; escapism, competition, whatever they're looking for in a video game. It's very hard to say "never buy anything you might enjoy because it's rewarding a breaking industry". And even then that won't get to the non-hyper-online crowd (including myself as hyper online).

A bunch of the dads on the school run play games. Are into games. They know more about geopolitics through the news than they do anything about how the games industry works.

So how do we reasonably enact change? Can we? And if we can't (except by voicing our criticism), is it really fair to talk about what consumers consume in a system designed to maximise consumption?

Ideally, yes. Practically, every single one does. This is not a good thing, but it's not unique to Firaxis nor is Firaxis going to be able to change it themselves. The problems are pretty structural (and often off-topic).
Just to be clear, I don't know if that's what you were supposing, but I never stated "never buy anything you might enjoy because it's rewarding a breaking industry", instead I say "in some specific situation, sometimes is betterif you don't buy something you might enjoy because it will force the Devs to make it better and let you have more fun later".

The rest is definitely off-topic at this point :lol:
 
Just to be clear, I don't know if that's what you were supposing, but I never stated "never buy anything you might enjoy because it's rewarding a breaking industry", instead I say "in some specific situation, sometimes is betterif you don't buy something you might enjoy because it will force the Devs to make it better and let you have more fun later".

The rest is definitely off-topic at this point :lol:
That's fair. I don't think I agree fully because individual choices don't really force a publisher's hand at all. But I get where you're coming from!
 
It's something many of us asked for in Civ 6, attacking my friend has consequences, in this case it's easier to go to war. You're not getting a hit you're getting an opportunity...

Yes, it was like this before and it is intended behavior: Relations are symmetrical, so it does not matter whether you do it to them or they do it to you, the relationship will take the same hit. You could see it as your people getting mad at them, even if you are not mad yourself.

I take a hit with Xerxes yes, to be expected. I also take a hit with the OTHER AI. Why? So I can go to war with all of them?
It's a -30 hit to ALL civs that don't like IP dispersal. THAT is the broken/wrong/stupid part.

(I've always held a "you attack my CS I **WILL** squash you like a bug!") :D
 
In the meantime, with the new patch you can disperse independent people cities with ships even if there are military units inside them......another bug with 0 testing and/ or tests that nobody cared to fix. Basically now you can destroy all the coastal IP with no problem.

This is a bug that happens 100% of the time, not just in some situation... Again I consider stuff like this inacceptable, it's impossible they do not test stuff like this.
 
In the meantime, with the new patch you can disperse independent people cities with ships even if there are military units inside them......another bug with 0 testing and/ or tests that nobody cared to fix. Basically now you can destroy all the coastal IP with no problem.

This is a bug that happens 100% of the time, not just in some situation... Again I consider stuff like this inacceptable, it's impossible they do not test stuff like this.
The situation seem even worse; it seems that Great Britain now has the bug that they just fixed on Siam.

I've not been able to test it yet, but reading online it seems that if you unlock Great Britain without been Ada Lovelace, you won't be able to choose it in Modern.

Paid 30 $ and basically not being able to use the paid Civ for a bug that a single test would have solved, this is ridiculous and unacceptable.

They fix 1 bug, 10 more arrives.
 
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