Hehehe vs Arakhor

[ori]

Hehehe is appealing a warning as quoted below.

Hello

I would like to appeal a moderator action.

1. Reference to the infraction in question: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/complicity.648272/page-8#post-15511346

2. All PMs regarding the infraction:

Hehehe,

Your message (Complicity) constitutes trolling under our rules:

The thread was not started to talk about Nazi death camps. Your persistent attempts to drag that thread onto the topic are considered both trolling and spam. You have received another 3 permanent points, bringing you up to 12/21.

My original message to Gorbles, which was quoted by Arakhor:

We both know perfectly well why you refuse to answer such a simple question. I know you know the answer to it. I know why you refuse to say it. It is because the most famous historical instance of concentration camps is the Holocaust. If you doubt this, Google the phrase and see what you get. But you cannot admit such a simple thing, because it would completely defeat your previous point. Point which was either very ignorant, or done in bad faith.

As for the rest of the stuff, unlike you, I've never deliberately politicianed my way out of a question. If you think that I have, feel free to ask again whatever you think I missed

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/complicity.648272/page-8#post-15511346

The rest of my conversation with Arakhor:

This infraction is a ridiculous example of selective enforcement of the rules. You know perfectly well that my discussion partners are just as guilty as I am. What's more you're allowing another completely off-topic strain of conversation to continue right now (I was addressing something OP said in his opening post, something which was ridiculous).

Nothing in my messages constitutes as trolling. Or else you have a very different (wrong) definition of the word.

This is nothing more than an attempt at shutting down dissenting voices, through using vague rules and selective enforcement. That much is very clear from the way you have chosen to apply the rules. I intend to contest your decision.

Also, to add to me previous post, you seemed to have no problem with the "off-topic" "trolling" in your previous post in that particular thread, which makes the out-of-the-blue infraction even more out of place. Surely, at least a warning first would have been more appropriate?

Contact an admin or super-mod then.

Lemon already told people to get back to the original topic, which did not involve you insisting on debating the semantics of Nazi death camps with people who clearly did not want to do so.

Sure, I will. As for Lemon, she said she didn't know what the original topic even was. As for myself, I was arguing about the original post, which is clearly relevant. Also, if people didn't want to discuss it, why did they then? Clearly, they did (Gorbles only got fed up with it once he lost it)

3. I think that this infraction is wrong, because A: I was replying to the original post which specifically mentioned Nazi atrocities B: Arakhor previously had no problem with the topic (certainly, not enough to mention it). Another moderator, Lemon Merchant, noted previously that "she wanted people to get on topic" and that "she didn't know what the topic was", so I assumed that did not apply to me C: if this is an infraction worthy crime, it is being enforced very selectively. It seems that I am the only one infracted for this supposedly off-topic conversation, whereas no-one who discussed it with me are being infracted for the exact same crime as I am. Furthermore, Arakhor is apparently fine allowing other off-topic conversations in that very thread right now.

I believe the proper conduct would have been to give a warning first. In addition to that, it seems like selective enforcement of vague rules. I should also note that I reject the accusation of trolling outright (no clarification was ever given).

4. Outcome I'm seeking: I'm looking to get the infraction be turned into a warning. Given that I am in the permanent points system, I do not think it is fair to just hand out permanent points on such loose grounds.

Is this everything I need for the appeal process? You are the right person to ask about this?

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

I believe Arakhor took the right action, hence I vote to uphold his decision.

 

[leif erikson]

Been through the thread several times trying to figure out the context. The OP seems pretty clear, the topic is supposed to be a discussion of Complicity and how/whether that applies to people that are passive about what they know is happening. It didn't stay on that topic.

I disagree with Hehehe's assessment of what happened. Reading many of the deleted posts, forum members consistently explained to him that his point was not relevant, yet he continued to persist in trying to make it, eventually using bold text to insist people listen. That is trolling and the posts were not on topic. Being in the permanent points program removes your benefit of the doubt that we try to give posters.

Vote to uphold.

 

[ori]

I'll vote to uphold as well.

That makes it unanimous with 3 votes to uphold. I will notify Arakhor and Hehehe and will publish once I hear back from Hehehe regarding permission to publish their message.

 

[ori]

I now received approval for publication as is including Hehehe's comments. And will do so now.