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Help! First time CBP Player

Discussion in 'Strategy Section' started by MIS, Feb 20, 2020.

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  1. MIS

    MIS Prince

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    Hi guys, I used to play BNW a lot, regularly beating Deity.. Never played CBP. Just downloaded it. I'm looking through posts on this forum. I'll be starting on "settler" and working my way up. On BNW, I generally played tall science. Is there a "beginners guide" to CBP? E.g.:

    For tall science
    a) pick Korea (?)
    b) Tech Order:
    c) Policy Order:
    d) Build Order:
    e) #Cities and timing:
    f) Best map (e.g. pangea v islands)

    etc. There are a million for non-CBP.

    After looking at posts, I got:
    3 general options:
    a) Autonomy->War
    b) Progress->Spread
    c) Tradition->Pyramids

    CBP appears to support wide more than non-CBP. Settling next to a mountain isnt' a must. And national wonders work differently.

    My first guess after looking was go Babylon, beeline writing, spam cities and Great Scientists, probably with progress. But that was before I saw about Pyramids/Hanging Gardens.

    My guess is that someone will answer: "CBP is perfectly balanced so that there is no best civ/tree/tech order". I'm asking for a guide; not a bible to let me beat CBP Deity first time.

    Thanks,
     
  2. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    A good early game approach if you want a tall science victory would be to play Korea, take tradition, then artistry, then rationalism, then freedom. I like to build monument, granary, shrine. Settle around 4 cities.

    I usually research pottery first, then whatever connects your luxury, then mathematics for the hanging gardens. Enter medieval through education, try to build University of Sankore. Enter renaissance through chemistry, try to build Leaning Tower, then try to build Porcelian Tower. Those are teh wonders I want the most, others are cool if you can get them too. Enter industrial through scientific theory, for public schools, then research fertilization to get an agribusiness in your capital.

    Try to get a religion. Lots of options here, you can take food if your land is lacking food, production if lacking production. I like synagogues when I enhance.

    Were you looking for something like this?
     
  3. MIS

    MIS Prince

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    Thank you so much; that's great. I will try it and see if it works.

    I started Dido/ Progress on an archipelago map on Settler, but I might save that for later.

    Thanks,
    Michael
     
  4. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Emperor

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    Coming from vanilla, one big change is that the AI should seem better at war so you may need to build a bit more military than you maybe did in vanilla even when playing a presumably tall/peaceful Korea game.

    Also, you could think about reading some of the playthroughs (they have their own sub forum) if you haven't already.
     
  5. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Settler might not be adecuate for you. Try chieftain or even prince. Do a first run with an open mind. Experiment. There are many viable options.

    The biggest pitfall is not caring about a fully functional and trained (by experience) army. Second pitfall is not caring about diplomacy; make friends and enemies.
    Also, culture and production are the most important yields. Founding a religion is not a must, but in that case you could conquer a religion founder and steal the leadership.

    You'll have plenty of questions for your second run.
     
  6. MIS

    MIS Prince

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    Thanks for the photojournal link. Does anyone record these for YouTube? A brief search found one video in the last year. Would anyone be interested in seeing me struggle on Settler and give advice/feedback etc.
     
  7. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Emperor

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    I think some of the photo journals are video based. I usually stuck to reading the written ones, though.

    If you post a photo journal asking for feed back I think you'll probably get a good response. Try to explain each major decision you make and my guess is that you'll spark lots of discussion.
     
    tu_79 likes this.
  8. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    English is not my native language, so I struggle watching videos. Besides, action is not evenly paced, there are times with lots of thinking and little action. Written is easier to follow.
    Also, most YouTube players just thrive because they are good at warfare, but commit several management mistakes.

    Anyways, I still recommend that you play a let's try, just for making acquaintance for the game mechanics.
     
  9. MIS

    MIS Prince

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    Steam screenshots and copy/paste come out just black with no picture, maybe because I have a weak gpu?

    For Tall/Peaceful/Korea, do you find it best to be on the coast (for powerful internal trade routes) or inland (more options to settle, more useful tiles?)

    If you are on the coast, do you still beeline Mathematics, or go for Sailing first (for the Trade Routes)?

    If playing on Pangaea, do you start with a second pathfinder?
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  10. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    No.
    If I have tradition, I prefer to be inland. I still beeline mathematics.
     
  11. MIS

    MIS Prince

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    Thanks a bunch. Some more questions:
    1) Does the CBP community frown on stealing workers?
    2) City Placement: Assume hills are good for defense and production bonus? What about rivers? In non-CBP they are great, but here I can’t build a well. Are they advantageous, neutral, or negative? Are mountains worth it for the Observatory bonus?
    3) If you get to 4 pop before shrine, and could see a good 2nd city location (but wasn't particularly worried about an AI stealing it), would you build a settler before the shrine? How do you time settlers and workers? Do I need 5 workers for 4 cities, or more because tall? How important are roads?
    4) Do I have time for Bronze working (before Mathematics), if I have Calendar luxuries on a forest)? By when does the AI normally build Hanging Gardens (on Deity)
    5) For a New City Build Order, is this correct: (Monument->Granary->Shrine->Council->Well->Barracks)? With Granary first if wheat/deer?
    6) T40 I can choose between 3F2G/ 1F2P/ Royal Guardian Specialist. Which two do I go for with 5 pop (as Korea).

    Thank you so much. I have been through the forum posts, but it's difficult to know as a CBP beginner how much of the advice still holds true for the newest patch. E.g. Pyramids got moved, so rush isn't an option.

    Thanks,
    M
    7)
     
  12. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    1) Stolen workers will improve tiles at half speed for 50 turns, as a way to balance worker stealing. Some players still don't do it.

    2) Observatories don't depend on mountains. Fresh water lets you build a bath, which is important for a tradition capital. River lets you build watermill, other cities build a well. Wells are better short term but watermills are better long term.

    3) Workers = city number +2 for me as tradition.
    I usually build a shrine before settler, unless I found a natural wonder with faith.

    4) AI build hanging gardens around turn 80-ish. You probably can't get bronze working.

    5) It depends, I think monument or shrine first is most common. I usually put council before granary, and almost never do granary first.

    6) My default choice is the faith and culture, but I'll take the production if I have a special reason, such as I'm building a wonder.
     
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  13. Recursive

    Recursive Emperor

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    As CrazyG noted, worker stealing is nerfed for the first 50 turns in the CBP.

    There aren't really any "bad" strategies here. Part of the mod's goals is to provide a variety of strategic options rather than, e.g., BNW's practically required Tradition > a few policies in the middle > Rationalism policy path, etc.

    The community will not frown on you for your strategic choices. :)

    If a strategy is consistently overpowered or unbalanced, then the CBP developers (probably Gazebo) will rebalance the mod to make it not so overpowered/unbalanced. Thus the game's balance constantly changes and improves.
     
  14. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    I will prioritize granary if my starting location is very low on food. Without food, getting your first Settlers can be hard.
     
  15. MIS

    MIS Prince

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    Hi guys, within Tradition, do you go Justice or Sovereignty first? Majesty or Splendor?

    What type of Military do you go for? Archers best on non-CBP. Do you go Chariot Archers if land is open? Or just stick with Archers?

    What kind of finishing time does the AI get on CBP Deity, assuming a non-domination win? I want to plan on how long a game is, so I know when to pivot food v production v science, etc.

    Thanks,
    M
     
  16. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    Justice or Sovereignty are both good. I change that choice between games.

    Always take Majesty before Splendor.
     
  17. andersw

    andersw King

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    As a Diety vanilla player I'd expect that you could do decent on atleast king if not higher.
    There is a lof of things to relearn ofc compared to BNW but game play wise I'd say the AI war, retreating units, coming at you in a formation is one of the biggest things, especially if you played mostly peaceful in vanilla.
    There are timings and paths that are more optimal, question is what? since there is not just one OP strat to play.
    So try to make small plans, like:
    Where do I settle my first ~6 cities
    Is there a wonder that you want? don't dilly dally, go straight for it.
    If I'm in a peaceful mode now, what units and how many do I need to defend against my neighbours?

    1. Play the game any way you enjoy, its a single player experience, even massive reloads with "new random seed" is fine if thats what you like.
    If you don't like the mod, play something else (or make insightful positive arguments of what you want to get changed).
    2. Watermills are built on rivers and are better but well builds earlier.
    I'd say it depends, a strategic location or hooking up certain resources is more important, for defense hills are vastly superiour because of vision for ranged units inside and defense bonus.
    3. It depends what policy opener and if I went stonehenge or not, I have probably too much anxiety of not getting a religion of my own.
    4. I dont play diety but even on emperor you really need to prio the wonders you want, since prod cost also increase with each wonder you have an increased risk of losing a wonder race.
    5. I don't know, I usually go shrine -> monument granary/worker because I really want religion and culture is king, otoh I dont play much tradition.
     
  18. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    About archers, they've been nerfed again in the last beta. They are potentially strong, but you must stand behind melee units. Horsemen kill archers in one hit.

    Chariots are not that weak, but they have to move, hit and retreat to avoid damage. If the terrain is rough, you can't move enough and if it's nice you can't place yourself behind melee, move, hit and retreat behind melee again. On the other hand, they stand damage better, and are better at hunting barbs. They require horses.

    I'd say that you prioritize one or the other depending on what tier 2 technology you want. Animal husbandry is one of the first techs you want anyways, to make sure that you have some horses for your own, but hunt is very much needed if you are starving in your capital. No food, no settlers.
     

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