ozo
Fanatic
Doc Tsiolkovski said:
For me it would be wise to play Monarch, but since I really feel like getting my ass whipped I play Deity
I may try Emperor or Demigod next time tho.EDIT: No tips on the Republic/Marketplaces-thing?
Help in Conquests Deity-game needed (Save and picture attached)
- Thread starter ozo
- Start date
For me it would be wise to play Monarch, but since I really feel like getting my ass whipped I play Deity
I may try Emperor or Demigod next time tho.EDIT: No tips on the Republic/Marketplaces-thing?
WackenOpenAir
Deity
I am usually not so in a hurry for republic. you will see in the game i am gonna giv you (tomorrow when im at my own pc again) I am at 250AD and still in despotism. I am close to both destroying my nearest neighbour (i can get republic from him and more for peace) and to building the GL (the idiot AI's didnt get literacy, i expected having to conquer the GL, but now i am building it myself) I will go to republic after this war is done for 3 reasons:
-i will have republic for free, either by making peace or from GL
-i will have conquered many cities, each of which has 1 tax man (they dont do much good else, completely corrupt they are) and gives me some unit support, making a difference of at least 5gpt when i am in republic.
-I had 0 luxuries, taking my neighbours land grants me 2 luxuries, enabling me to go republic.
Yes, i am building market places in many of my cities at the moment, in this situation it is definately a good thing to do because i already have ~30 more units than units supported and i will never have the money to upgrade them all, so building more soon to be outdated units would be stupid.
I dont think it should always be a rule to get marketplaces before going republic, if you have an abundance of luxuries, you could do republic faster i guess. All depends on situations. Thats why you need to think ahead and decide your strategy, government swiching is an important issue in your long term strategy to decide.
-i will have republic for free, either by making peace or from GL
-i will have conquered many cities, each of which has 1 tax man (they dont do much good else, completely corrupt they are) and gives me some unit support, making a difference of at least 5gpt when i am in republic.
-I had 0 luxuries, taking my neighbours land grants me 2 luxuries, enabling me to go republic.
Yes, i am building market places in many of my cities at the moment, in this situation it is definately a good thing to do because i already have ~30 more units than units supported and i will never have the money to upgrade them all, so building more soon to be outdated units would be stupid.
I dont think it should always be a rule to get marketplaces before going republic, if you have an abundance of luxuries, you could do republic faster i guess. All depends on situations. Thats why you need to think ahead and decide your strategy, government swiching is an important issue in your long term strategy to decide.
ozo
Fanatic
Ok, thanks for the advice. I'm already quite far in my new Deity-game, about 1400-1500 AD I guess. I've just entered the industrial age, but got attacked (or should I say backstabbed) by the Germans and lost three cities. Luckily those weren't my core cities, they only produced a few shields each. I'm trying to get to the UN first, but I doubt it will happen since the largest civ, the Aztecs, are already in late industrial age. I'll try to hang on as long as I can tho.
ozo
Fanatic
I'm now in the middle of the 15th century in my new game. I'm still alive and going, but I'm really getting afraid that the Aztecs are getting too strong. They have already wiped out the Babylonians and the Incas, and now they are on their way to wipe out the Byzantines. The Aztecs have bombers and tanks against Riflemen. I guess they will get a domination victory. I'll post a pic later on.
It is probbably an exploit, but you can safely run a deficit in anarchy, ie. you will not loose buildings / units when you have 0 gold and negative income.
A lot of people rate having loads of marketplaces to afford republic. IMHO, aqueducts are more important, as you get 3 free unit support with each city. With all that food about you should be able to get a few.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Hmm you play fast 
For me, one turn takes at least 5 minutes on average, even in early game. Unless you are very experienced in deity+ games, you really need to play carefull and think well about every little thing you do.
I will now add my example game. I had to make several files and rename my .rar files to .zip because this cute forum does not take .rar files or files >500Kb. So you might need to rename them .rar
Game settings:
Sid
archpelago 70% all other average.
no barbarians
no space/cultural victory
no AI respawn
no culturale linked starts
Player: Dutch
AI: 6 random
less agressive AI (looks like a mistake, they are all at peace with eachother now)
Expansion:
I started with one boat for scouting and then getting the settler factory online ASAP. for this, i did not make any roads, just mines and irrigation to get growth + the granary ASAP. luxury slider used for hapiness.
The settler factory makes nothing but settlers until there is no more space to expand to. No other city makes settlers.
If a new found city's production does not exceed growth, it starts with a worker first. The 4 closest cities who have low corruption start with a barracks, they will become unit factories. more corrupt cities will make 1 defender, then catapults after their worker (some made 2 workers)
Some forests were chopped to speed up the production of those defenders. (kind of paying back the workers production costs) cities with a barracks produce nothing but swordsmen/spears/horses. cities without rax produce catapults (who dont have hp anyway)
Producing workers and barracks first causes me to have no militairy units for a while. I took the risk for the less agressive AI not to attack me. I had to pay a little tribute a few times, but they didnt attack me. This was only for a short time though, after these workers and raxes, i produced nothing but militairy units for a while.
My land was pretty good, i had a good space with rivers and grasland to expand without the AI interfering for a while. The disadvantage was no luxuries.
Strategy plans:
My ultimate goal is a domination victory.
First, i must catch up in techs and get to republic.
Since i did not expect to have a chance to get the GL, i did even go for literacy. I did get writing at 10%, but later i set science to 0.
I was able to get up to, but not including republic by trading techs without needing to spend any significant money. Getting republic would be very costly. (this is standard)
Since i have no luxuries, i cannot afford republic anyway. Therefore, i decided not to pay the high price for it. Instead, i made the folowing plans:
-Attack and conquer arabia.
-Get peace with arabia preferably leaving them only 1 city, making them pay republic and the first middle ages techs for it. This grands me cities for units support and extra commerce as well as 2 luxuries, enabling me to go to republic after i get it from the peace negotiations. (destroy arabs 20 turns later or hope an AI will do so, cannot keep them alive for the risk of city flips)
-With the techs aquired from the arabs, upgrade my army to swiss mercs and trebuchets, then use those to conquer whatever city has build the GL, even if i can keep it for just 1 turn. Get a golden age in the proces.
-(mid term strategy)After that, go for tech brokering and attempt to keep up with the AI's.
-(long term strategy)Conquer more AI's.
However, the AI never got literacy, so it now seems i am gonna build it myself. Other than that, the plans still stands. The good thing is i am now free to choose whom i will go to war with after destroying the arabs instead of having to attack the one with GL. Also do i not need to get peace with the arabs and can destroy them right away. (taking away the risk for city flips).
Fighting War:
Use many catapults like you see in my save files. With catapults, you bring every unit to the red before attacking it. you could use archers to attack and spears to defend. Since i had iron, i made swordsmen who can both attack and defend. fighting is pretty slow this way, but losses are minimal. This way of fighting wars is standard and needed on Sid. You cannot afford the losses you have when fighting without catapults (the advantage of no catapults is that your war can go faster, which makes it nicer on lower difficulties)
For now, i just let the conquered cities starve a bit and keep my units mostly outside the cities to prevent culture flips and to prevent losing units when they happen. also do i allow the AI to recapture high flip risk cities because that way they do not get free bonus units (like they get when the city flips) and the population is decreased by capturing it again. i will take care of these cities when i have captured all of arabia. Another option is to raze and rebuild, which i might do with cities i conquer from later opponents on other islands. For now, i do not want to pay the cost of a settler for relative useless cities.
City usage:
The cities closest to the capital are most important, so these always have priority. Every tile they work must be fully optimized.
The cities that are pretty corrupt but close enough to be usefull someday (under a different government) are being prepared for the future. Although building a temple and marketplace might not seem worth it right now, it will be when there is a better government, so these are started yet. Growth is also important for these cities. When worker jobs are decided, the closer cities still get priority though (but you should have enough workers for all these cities)
The far away cities that will always be corrupt have no priority at all. Only when workers have nothing better to do they will do work for those cities. The cities will never get any improvement or even unit for MP unless the direct benefit is bigger than the cost. They are milk cows (though they give very little milk) They are usefull however, no matter how corrupt they are, they can always have at least 1 taxmen and thus produce 3 gold. Also do they provide unit support. The production is just a small bonus. I am plannign to ICS the conquered area in order to have as many of these little milk cows as possible. (the settlers will not be made in my most productive cities though)
The war with the arabs has granded me 4 leaders this far, the first i used for the forbiden palace, the other 3 became armies (still empty). With the siege strategy you never need to lose an units in attack (since you only attack redlined units) I will probably use the armies when i have swiss mercs in order to stop losing units on defence as well.
The biggest problem i see in my game is the peace between the AI's and the relative strength of the iroquois. I don't see anything i can do about it right now though.
If i wouldnt be building the GL, i would also get a bit nervous about conquering that (what if it is in an inland city) but luckily, that needs not to be a problem.
edit: I also like to explain my placement of the FP, as i see there have been some discussions about this lately.
For the higher OCN, it doesnt matter where you place the FP, so the only thing to look at is the effect on distance corruption.
If you place it too close to the capital, the reduction in distance corruption is partly (or completely if you place it in the capital) wasted. If you place it too far away from the capital, it will be wasted because the cities that benefit from it are so badly corrupt by rank corruption that they are beyong any help.
So the FP needs to be placed there where most cities benefit from the lower distance corruption. cities that benefit from it are cities that are gonna be closer to the FP than the original capital but have a moderate rank corruption. It also matters on what term of time you evaluate. On the long term, it is better to place it slightly further because you can expect cities to become less corrupt by possibly democracy, courthouses and police stations. I tried to affect cities that will have less than 50% rank curruption under republic.
For me, one turn takes at least 5 minutes on average, even in early game. Unless you are very experienced in deity+ games, you really need to play carefull and think well about every little thing you do.
I will now add my example game. I had to make several files and rename my .rar files to .zip because this cute forum does not take .rar files or files >500Kb. So you might need to rename them .rar
Game settings:
Sid
archpelago 70% all other average.
no barbarians
no space/cultural victory
no AI respawn
no culturale linked starts
Player: Dutch
AI: 6 random
less agressive AI (looks like a mistake, they are all at peace with eachother now)
Expansion:
I started with one boat for scouting and then getting the settler factory online ASAP. for this, i did not make any roads, just mines and irrigation to get growth + the granary ASAP. luxury slider used for hapiness.
The settler factory makes nothing but settlers until there is no more space to expand to. No other city makes settlers.
If a new found city's production does not exceed growth, it starts with a worker first. The 4 closest cities who have low corruption start with a barracks, they will become unit factories. more corrupt cities will make 1 defender, then catapults after their worker (some made 2 workers)
Some forests were chopped to speed up the production of those defenders. (kind of paying back the workers production costs) cities with a barracks produce nothing but swordsmen/spears/horses. cities without rax produce catapults (who dont have hp anyway)
Producing workers and barracks first causes me to have no militairy units for a while. I took the risk for the less agressive AI not to attack me. I had to pay a little tribute a few times, but they didnt attack me. This was only for a short time though, after these workers and raxes, i produced nothing but militairy units for a while.
My land was pretty good, i had a good space with rivers and grasland to expand without the AI interfering for a while. The disadvantage was no luxuries.
Strategy plans:
My ultimate goal is a domination victory.
First, i must catch up in techs and get to republic.
Since i did not expect to have a chance to get the GL, i did even go for literacy. I did get writing at 10%, but later i set science to 0.
I was able to get up to, but not including republic by trading techs without needing to spend any significant money. Getting republic would be very costly. (this is standard)
Since i have no luxuries, i cannot afford republic anyway. Therefore, i decided not to pay the high price for it. Instead, i made the folowing plans:
-Attack and conquer arabia.
-Get peace with arabia preferably leaving them only 1 city, making them pay republic and the first middle ages techs for it. This grands me cities for units support and extra commerce as well as 2 luxuries, enabling me to go to republic after i get it from the peace negotiations. (destroy arabs 20 turns later or hope an AI will do so, cannot keep them alive for the risk of city flips)
-With the techs aquired from the arabs, upgrade my army to swiss mercs and trebuchets, then use those to conquer whatever city has build the GL, even if i can keep it for just 1 turn. Get a golden age in the proces.
-(mid term strategy)After that, go for tech brokering and attempt to keep up with the AI's.
-(long term strategy)Conquer more AI's.
However, the AI never got literacy, so it now seems i am gonna build it myself. Other than that, the plans still stands. The good thing is i am now free to choose whom i will go to war with after destroying the arabs instead of having to attack the one with GL. Also do i not need to get peace with the arabs and can destroy them right away. (taking away the risk for city flips).
Fighting War:
Use many catapults like you see in my save files. With catapults, you bring every unit to the red before attacking it. you could use archers to attack and spears to defend. Since i had iron, i made swordsmen who can both attack and defend. fighting is pretty slow this way, but losses are minimal. This way of fighting wars is standard and needed on Sid. You cannot afford the losses you have when fighting without catapults (the advantage of no catapults is that your war can go faster, which makes it nicer on lower difficulties)
For now, i just let the conquered cities starve a bit and keep my units mostly outside the cities to prevent culture flips and to prevent losing units when they happen. also do i allow the AI to recapture high flip risk cities because that way they do not get free bonus units (like they get when the city flips) and the population is decreased by capturing it again. i will take care of these cities when i have captured all of arabia. Another option is to raze and rebuild, which i might do with cities i conquer from later opponents on other islands. For now, i do not want to pay the cost of a settler for relative useless cities.
City usage:
The cities closest to the capital are most important, so these always have priority. Every tile they work must be fully optimized.
The cities that are pretty corrupt but close enough to be usefull someday (under a different government) are being prepared for the future. Although building a temple and marketplace might not seem worth it right now, it will be when there is a better government, so these are started yet. Growth is also important for these cities. When worker jobs are decided, the closer cities still get priority though (but you should have enough workers for all these cities)
The far away cities that will always be corrupt have no priority at all. Only when workers have nothing better to do they will do work for those cities. The cities will never get any improvement or even unit for MP unless the direct benefit is bigger than the cost. They are milk cows (though they give very little milk) They are usefull however, no matter how corrupt they are, they can always have at least 1 taxmen and thus produce 3 gold. Also do they provide unit support. The production is just a small bonus. I am plannign to ICS the conquered area in order to have as many of these little milk cows as possible. (the settlers will not be made in my most productive cities though)
The war with the arabs has granded me 4 leaders this far, the first i used for the forbiden palace, the other 3 became armies (still empty). With the siege strategy you never need to lose an units in attack (since you only attack redlined units) I will probably use the armies when i have swiss mercs in order to stop losing units on defence as well.
The biggest problem i see in my game is the peace between the AI's and the relative strength of the iroquois. I don't see anything i can do about it right now though.
If i wouldnt be building the GL, i would also get a bit nervous about conquering that (what if it is in an inland city) but luckily, that needs not to be a problem.
edit: I also like to explain my placement of the FP, as i see there have been some discussions about this lately.
For the higher OCN, it doesnt matter where you place the FP, so the only thing to look at is the effect on distance corruption.
If you place it too close to the capital, the reduction in distance corruption is partly (or completely if you place it in the capital) wasted. If you place it too far away from the capital, it will be wasted because the cities that benefit from it are so badly corrupt by rank corruption that they are beyong any help.
So the FP needs to be placed there where most cities benefit from the lower distance corruption. cities that benefit from it are cities that are gonna be closer to the FP than the original capital but have a moderate rank corruption. It also matters on what term of time you evaluate. On the long term, it is better to place it slightly further because you can expect cities to become less corrupt by possibly democracy, courthouses and police stations. I tried to affect cities that will have less than 50% rank curruption under republic.
ozo
Fanatic
Oh well, I guess there won't be any screenshots since the aztecs attacked me. They have bombers and tanks, I have muskets and riflemen. Hopeless. I have started a new game and my strategy will be a bit more aggressive this time. I plan on using catapults, spears and Mounted Warriors. I will trigger an early golden age, but I'll live with that. I'm not expecting to win anyway 
The beginning seems fine, I have both horses and iron.
The beginning seems fine, I have both horses and iron.
First of all, if you're usually a monarch/regent player, I would play a few games on Emperor, then DemiGod before stepping up to Diety. In my experience, the main differences here are when you'll catch up to the AI in tech. On Emperor, you can usually catch them in early medieval, in DG it's more late Medieval/Early IA, and IA for Diety.
Secondly, read some articles in the War Academy, Especially BamSpeedy's Settler Factory and Cracker's Worker guide. AlexMan's Corruption article is also handy, but a bit on the heavy side. The article that improved my game the most, was Moonsinger's trading practice.
Secondly, read some articles in the War Academy, Especially BamSpeedy's Settler Factory and Cracker's Worker guide. AlexMan's Corruption article is also handy, but a bit on the heavy side. The article that improved my game the most, was Moonsinger's trading practice.
ozo
Fanatic
Tarkeel: I know I should play Emperor first, but there's some magic in the "Deity"-difficulty level. It's that difficulty that everyone dreams of beating (atleast me) and that's why I want to try it. It doesn't feel the same to play on "Demigod" than on "Deity". I beat Deity kinda fast in civ2, and I don't know why I couldn't eventually do the same in civ3. I know civ3 is much harder, but after 20-30 deity games I think I will have a reasonable chance to win one.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
by the way, i completely disagree about playing emperor or demi first.
when i started playing civ, i started playing deity. Sure, took a while, but after a six or so failures, i won. Civ is a completely different game on higher difficulties compared to low ones. So better just learn to play the game you want to learn.
playing lower difficulties only teaches you bad habbits.
when i started playing civ, i started playing deity. Sure, took a while, but after a six or so failures, i won. Civ is a completely different game on higher difficulties compared to low ones. So better just learn to play the game you want to learn.
playing lower difficulties only teaches you bad habbits.
ozo
Fanatic
I already notice differences in my gaming style even when I've played only a few deity-games. I notice this best when I play multiplayer. I always look for cattle, wheat and rivers and always think that I need two garrison troops in cities to keep them content at size 3. Multiplayer sure is different from Deity.
Detlef Richter
The Pikeman
I think the first is to set a goal. Means perhaps your winning condition. Conquest, diplo or spaceship. So if you want to play fast (warmongering) then i would prefer monarchy (smaller unit costs). On longer games, with a go through IA and MT it's better to use republic.
Your city placement is too near. 2 tiles between each city gives you enough space for growing and enough safety against enemies (you can reach each city with the next city units). A good variant is the RCP strategy, you can find it at the war-academy. Dianthus has made a a good tool for the City placement.
And at last, many others had told this bevor, explore more lands. You have no chance without exploration.
Your city placement is too near. 2 tiles between each city gives you enough space for growing and enough safety against enemies (you can reach each city with the next city units). A good variant is the RCP strategy, you can find it at the war-academy. Dianthus has made a a good tool for the City placement.
And at last, many others had told this bevor, explore more lands. You have no chance without exploration.
ozo
Fanatic
Detlef Richter: Thanks, but that game really is outdated by now since I've already started new games. Maybe I should edit that in. I don't understand why I would need Ring City Placement (if you mean that by RCP) since I use conquests.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
you dont need it.
I am pretty confident the placement like it is in my game is very good.
I am pretty confident the placement like it is in my game is very good.
ozo
Fanatic
Btw, WackedOpenAir, could you post a screenshot from your game? I play civ3 on another computer than I read the forums on, so it would be easier if there would be a screenshot also.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
k here is one of turn 150, just destroyed the arabs.
I have no picture editing software. used MS paint, so quality sucks.
if you PM your mail adress, i can mail you the saves if wanted
I have no picture editing software. used MS paint, so quality sucks.
if you PM your mail adress, i can mail you the saves if wanted
ozo
Fanatic
My current game is progressing nicely too. I'm playing as the Iroquois (again) and started next to the Inca and the Maya (again, maybe I should turn of culturally linked start locations). Anyway, I am now at war with the Maya and I have already taken three cities with my stack of catapults, spearmen and mounted warriors.
First the Mayas were willing to give me one tech for peace, now it's two. I'm planning to still fight on and take some more cities in order to get Maya to give me all their techs. I really need them since Inca, the other civ on my island already has pikemen and medieval infantry. The game is now at about 200 AD.
First the Mayas were willing to give me one tech for peace, now it's two. I'm planning to still fight on and take some more cities in order to get Maya to give me all their techs. I really need them since Inca, the other civ on my island already has pikemen and medieval infantry. The game is now at about 200 AD.
WackenOpenAir said:
It is certainly a different challenge playing at lower levels but just as valid. Many GOTM players are perfectly capable of winning at high difficulty levels but spend most of their time playing lower level games. Obviously if you can beat the Sid level you are a very good player, and I envy you your successes, but I suspect that if you restrict your play to only Sid level, it could hinder your play at lower levels.
ozo
Fanatic
Well, I finally beat one game on Deity, vanilla civ tho. Decided to try that. I played as France and succeeded in getting a diplomatic victory. I admit I reloaded and replayed things that went absolutely wrong because I felt I didn't really know how the computer acts. I guess that in my next game I won't need to reload very much. I've been thinking that I'm going to go for domination/conquest-victory with Chinese on Emperor or Deity.
strategycat
Gleeful Holoco$t Denier
WackenOpenAir said:
Why make catapults only in cities without barracks?
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