[R&F] Help jumping from Immortal into Diety

[Insomm]

Started playing Civ V, worked my way up to Immortal and have stalked these forums every now and then for years now.

Since Civ VI came out I have made it to Immortal with relative ease, but I want to make the jump to Deity.

My victories usually take too long (usually over 300 turns), I don't know exactly what are the bare bones of the victories and what things I tend to go for which are unnecessary extras. Additionally I don't play aggressively enough on the start, half because I don't find it as entertaining, and half because I don't know how to.

I am aware of some of the more basic things such as Magnus abuse with policy cards, chops, and overflow. I believe I just waste too much time on things unnecessary for my wincon.

Game settings are usually Small, Continents, everything else on Standard.

Are there any in depth comprehensive guides on achieving each victory type in a low amount of turns?

Can a Diety be done in a more "defensive/pacifist" way, or is early combat/conquering essentially a must?

Any additional tips for someone trying to make the jump to Deity?

 

[Mr. Shadows]

Deity is absolutely winnable with a peaceful strategy. The best cultural strats actually rely on peaceful play because trade routes and open borders increase your tourism output. What's your favorite VC? There's lots of good advice if you dig, although some of it is dated since the expansion. If you look for the Civ Of The Week threads there's lots of advice on how to play each of them different ways.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Play Nubia?

 

[Insomm]

Deity is absolutely winnable with a peaceful strategy. The best cultural strats actually rely on peaceful play because trade routes and open borders increase your tourism output. What's your favorite VC? There's lots of good advice if you dig, although some of it is dated since the expansion. If you look for the Civ Of The Week threads there's lots of advice on how to play each of them different ways.

I don't have one "favorite," but I had been trying to play around religion quite a bit prior to the expansion (which seems a lot easier now, but I have yet to give it another go), and I often times like doing cultural England. Not the best (specially on continents) since more often than not I barely use their unique features other than the archeological museums (and do they feel great with Heritage Tourism and Computers. I just struggle to balance out the science usually. Have yet to do it with Mary Leakey as well).

I have searched a bit, but like you mentioned there seems to be a lot of dated stuff. I haven't played in a few months, so it is somewhat hard to know what still applies.

Play Nubia?

Some of my first victories in Civ VI were with Nubia, including my first Immortal victory. But I fail to see how limiting myself to a single civilization would teach me to beat Deity more consistently overall.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Spam a bunch of chariots before researching Stirrups and a bunch of horsemen before military science, and a bunch of warriors before gunpowder. Accumulate as much gold as possible (shouldn't be hard). Then upgrade and stomp and win. This is the most consistent way to beat Deity.

Once you've conquered a civ or two, you can win however you want. And afterward you'll always have a strong military to slow your competitors down.

 

[Casualty of war]

You can play peacefully as long as you have enough dirt for around 7 cities and enough luxuries to keep them content. Otherwise someone has to donate cities to your empire, Civs or City-States.

However the big change for Deity is that it is almost certain that any close-by Civ will launch an attack in force on you relatively early; you will have to create a deterring or counterstriking force immediately if you have a close neighbor. It will probably be a Warrior swarm so 3-4 well-placed Archers is usually enough to bust it up. Any Civ with a Ancient/Classical Era unique unit is going to be advantaged to bust up that onslaught, like the aforementioned Nubia.

The strange thing is that this aggression can lead to quicker finish times than Immortal because you get that sweet Defensive Tactics inspiration.

 

[Leathaface]

I've won 6-7 of my last games straight on Immortal. I'm thinking of moving up to Deity as well. I read that 8 cities is good for Science and 12 for Culture.

I like to play peaceful since building a bunch of Pitati Archers, or a bunch of Knights and conquering is too easy IMO. I'll be waiting for the Vox Populi equivalent of Civ VI to be released before attempting that strategy, where the AI has been improved a good bit and can put up more of a fight.

 

[curwen]

peacefully
play egypt...
1) (trades routes/ always have one with other civs asap and concentrate on eureka/gold/science/production (2 harbor for eureka can replace commercial at begining... and help trade route)... if you are alone on your continent it s easy (my army was 2 war 1 archer 2 crossbow 1 spearman 2 scouts and 3 naval units up to industrial age (i upgraded my navy to clear barbarian for my scout.. and my army when i started the space race as i was swimming in gold.. I started the space race 3rd in my latest game)... and i was never attacked (except by barbarian)...If you are not alone it is also easy but you have to upgrade somewhat your army to repel attack (destroy the attacking army move near the ennemy city(or not some civ will pay if you just destroy the army) sue for peace for gold ... and go for a tech victory (i never tried culture but that could be possible also i have generaly a complete archeological or art museum in all my city by the end of the game)... use spy to slow tech victory and never do anything with religion (your ally will take care of each other ... do not take the military alliance (you do not want to go to war )) ... you should be ally with at least 4 civ (you can forget the farther one) and most of the remaining city states ... you can consider going to war to repel an attack to a city state if the bonus is good and it is near... no warmonger penalty if you are suzerain) You can also protect a city state by encircling it with your units. Remember that for science victory you do not need ALL the science tech and you need only 1 spaceport(buy everuthing in this city the latest thing you should have build before spacesport is neighboroud) . Only be careful on barbarian rush (and other civ rush) up to knight time (after that all your neighbour should love you and make war against each other... just let them). Btw in this case just make 1 UU for epic (you want 3 archer for eureka and you have better things to do with your gold if you want to play peacefuly).
2) Wonder :
Make the zimbabwe wonder when you can (keep a spot for it early... computer very rarely go for it) gold trade route (more gold) merchant point...
Forbidden city (free card always good) rarely taken by computer....
the one who gove 3 envoy (it is often overlooked by computer)
if you can...
colossus (same as zimbabwe but can be hard to get on deity)
Ruhr valley (i get it sometimes... it is not necessary)
If you really have a good chance (resource and worker to rush it):
big ben (you can get it rarely)
pyramid (do not ask when it is left rush it (i bet some civ do not have a spot for it until late as they do not like to build city near desert... so sometimes it is overlooked)
Other are useful but generally you will not be able to get it on deity (i never got the library or oxforduniversity when i play peacefuly...it s easier when you crush the concurrence)
3) Great people.... merchant/science/ingenior (sometimes i buy a general or admiral for city quest if cheap and then i use it when +melee bonus become useless)... only ones you really need are the ones who give point in space race (you do not NEED it but you cannot let another civ HAVE it ...)... take whatever is cheap (and do not buy them except if you need 1 for eureka... and during space race)
4) Policy:
- always have the +2 worker charge policy up once it is available when you make worker... switch to it make worker and switch back in 1 turn with a policy you have prepaid for this purpose.... most of my workers have 6 charges (7 if i get pyramid) some have 5 (the one who pop when i make city and get a free one).. only my 1st worker have 3 charge (all the one i have after get at least 4 from governor until i get the policy)
- have nearly always the +2 to get envoy (you can switch for 1 turn at the begining for the one who give 2 envoy for the 1st one you send ... you can do this switch as the same time as the worker policy switch)
- spy one (when you have a slot for it ... +50% construction (is barely useful you will buy most of them) but minus 25% time is great....
- gold policy .... at first trade route/ gold adjacency later the + per building are better for gold and/or science
-after that get science/amenity/housing ones
Why gold before science ... because with gold you can buy science building (and worker who will make housing so more gold/production so more GP and more science)
5) governement:
republic -> merchand republic -> democraty (when you want to upgrade you weak military you can get the 50% discount policy as a wild card for 1 turn)
6) you are ally with everyone so never stop exploring your 2 caravel and 2 scout are here for that (you should get a mutual open border and they should give you gold for it ...) that get you epic point (NW) ... but you will need them also later for your spy (if one civ do not want to give it do not fret you will get it with the 1st sattelit and you have enough room to let your spy play before that... but generally all give it to me even the only one who is not my ally)
7) spy... train them at first (generally get gold... rarely science if really needed).. when one get the +1 to all spy if he is in your home put it to protect the commercial/industrial hub (and later the space port) it will level faster that every other one.. and do not forget to reset it everytime he kill a spy... If you cannot protect those 3 with the same spy use 2 to at least protect industrial +spaceport... Once the space race is started (yours) send you spy to ennemy city in this order do : get bonus in the city ->remove governor ->destroy industrial zone -> destroy spaceport (make partisan if nothing remains).
8) religion... expensive ... you have better things to do with your faith point (like buying worker/GP).. just get the +2 faith for quarry or luxury ressource (so you get some faith point)... make a holy site only when you have really nothing better to do (that or an encampement ... it depends of the religious bonus or the city quest you can complete .... i generally build 0 or 1... and 2/3 encampement all of them after industrial age....
9) sell everything .... you do not need horse (it s expensive.... if by miracle i have 2 horses (generaly by CS) i make 1 to try to get the knight upgrade (can be a pain to find a barbarian to do it...) sell luxury ressources (you need only 1 of each type... exploit them sell them ... and your neighbour will never develop theirs) ... sell iron (if you have it) sell sulfur ...
10) military: you want to play peacefully... fog of war is your enemy you want to see barbarian scout and kill them before they make a huge army (you will protect your cities with your 3/4 archer/crossbowman/city wall if really need .. You had to make one city wall for eureka... put it where it will be useful if nothing seems obvious put it in one of your 2 harbor.. ). Your cities on the coast (you should have 2 at MOST they are harder to defend) should have either one of your archer(crossbowman) and/or 1 naval unit ... remember you need only 1 city with room (your capital/spacesport) the other ones are only to get you gold/science/GP points... and protect your capital...
11) CS state... in general as usual do the quest... at 1st you want the bonus for gold (and science )... some soverain bonus can be good (one give water access for all city other give bonus to trade route (no pillaging is nice)... if you are the 1st one to reach it you can plan your cities accordingly) military one are generally useless to you.. so at first get the bonus (gold and science... 1 envoy for cultural.. jackpot is the one who give +15% science if at peace ... even if you see it late in the game plan for it ... never spend your envoy needlesly (you are not obliged to spend them when you get them... no use to get from 3 to 4 envoy in a CS if you do not get the suzerain status for example)... and when you expllre the map you will see new (and more useful ones).
12) worker... they are you berad and butter.. youwill buy them with faith at the correct age and they will solve give ytou luxury and strategic ressource to sell asap solve your housing problem(farm) will destroy all rainforest (big cities+ construction + room for more farm) will make your mine/lumber mill (production) so big cities early big production and one commercial hub for gold and trade route.... and your trade route to grow your capital (and get old /culture/science)


For domination... play scithia... rush your continent with horse archer (and 3 archer/crossbow) then with canon... do not forget that you need 1 melee unique (a scout is good enough but you can make light cavalry (2 at a time..)) to take a city... just do not forget to pillage everything to pay for whatever you need (science/faith/gold/health) barbarian are just canon folder even for your warrior... the easiest way to win at deity

 

[d_b]

My first Deity culture win was turn 105 with China after watching a sub-90 turn victory in a chinese playthrough Boyan Sun provided. It took two views to properly understand the level of synergy the player had created with specific wonders, play style, and governors e.g. city 1 has great library and apadana, plus a theatre square and campus, Reyna goes here with 100% tourism upgrade for all the book slots. City 2 gets oracle and Pingala with great people upgrade, a builder swarm follows Magnus around chopping out districts using slingers and builders overflow. Builders spamming wonders. Slingers and wonders are everywhere in the end.

All up I used 6 cities, the playthough is only 5 or 6 as well.

Books and relics. It was meant to be all peaceful but I got jumped by Khmer around turn 90, only just held him off. Take a look, it'll change your game no matter what victory condition

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/deity-culture-victory-strategies.630965/

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Spam a bunch of chariots before researching Stirrups and a bunch of horsemen before military science, and a bunch of warriors before gunpowder. Accumulate as much gold as possible (shouldn't be hard). Then upgrade and stomp and win. This is the most consistent way to beat Deity.

Once you've conquered a civ or two, you can win however you want. And afterward you'll always have a strong military to slow your competitors down.

How many cities should you hard build before you upgrade and stomp?
What is the average win time when you play like this?
I notice many players playing with a Knight Rush finish the game before they get to Military Science!?

If you have no Horses or Iron nearby what is the best way to stomp the AI and finish before turn 200?
If you do not find a Culture or Science CS that survives on Stand/Pangaea Maps how do these players get Science and Culture so Fast?

I've won 6-7 of my last games straight on Immortal. I'm thinking of moving up to Deity as well. I read that 8 cities is good for Science and 12 for Culture.

I like to play peaceful since building a bunch of Pitati Archers, or a bunch of Knights and conquering is too easy IMO. I'll be waiting for the Vox Populi equivalent of Civ VI to be released before attempting that strategy, where the AI has been improved a good bit and can put up more of a fight.

Knight Rush does sound easy but I find that it can be more difficult with Generic Civs and Bad Dirt.
If you do not know how to do it perfectly in all situations you might find it more of a struggle than not.
Players that are really good at this game do it with ease but for most players it is difficult to execute Knight Rushes and end the game around turn 120.

Bad Players like myself can do Later War and win around turn 250 to 300 but winning on Deity isn't exactly the point anymore.

I notice Players suggest to play this Civ for this Win or this Civ for that Win.
I want a generic strategy that works for all Civs.
I know that I can roll with Tommy or Rome.
I want to be able to get fast Knight Rushes and Fast win times with the worst Civs.

 

[Victoria]

The real key is to concentrate only on what is needed, nothing more.

I want to be able to get fast Knight Rushes and Fast win times with the worst Civs.

Early culture

Let just be clear on things, look at every GOTM... none start with rubbish locations, people would stop playing them if they did that. Not only the locations but the ability to get to natural wonders and get early envoys off meeting a CS first.

'Normal' games they are not

 

[EpicWestern]

I know that I can roll with Tommy or Rome.
I want to be able to get fast Knight Rushes and Fast win times with the worst Civs.

I play random civs on random maps and don't trade, reroll, or replay turns; getting 120 turn win times is just plain unrealistic. That said, IMO early knight rush is still probably the best strategy for a pure domination win or hybrid domination/science win. Archer rushing to take over opposing civs really isn't that viable anymore due to loyalty. You're frequently forced into an early game dark age especially if you're just massing archers and not building the variety needed for the era points. You still sometimes need 3-7 archers just to defend against enemy civ attacks (which frequently happens when you don't use trade exploits). Catapults and crossbowmen are also too weak and slow for any real takeover early on, but again sometimes due to early pressure at least crossbows are needed merely for defense. So early midgame you're mostly just asking yourself how fast you can get away with teching to knights. Sometimes you can bypass machinery sometimes you can't.

Also in my experience getting the 50% upgrade card prior or right around when achieving teching to knights is extremely difficult. When you're randoming everything getting fast culture isn't really a choice. You either have it or you don't. So you can only really afford 4-5 knights early on. Getting 20 knights and attacking in 3 different places, again, is just unrealistic. Usually I can take over just 1-2 civs while transitioning to bombards, or field cannons. Bombards should do most of the work in an average deity all random domination game. Artillery likely shows up later as a finisher. Sub 200 turns are a good win time, and I'm still generally happy with 200-250. In rare circumstances you'll attack a civ prematurely and fail and that sets you back significantly enough that you have to wait for later tech. In my last domination game I struggled with a bit of early pressure and tried to take over a neighbor with mere crossbowmen prematurely. This led to the Cree running away with tech while I was preoccupied to the point where they had 10-15 missile cruiser armadas, and plenty of modern infantry armies. They were even bombing me, and I felt obligated to build air units as defense, and we actually had some air battles which never happens. Eventually I found the easiest path to taking them over was nuking the capital and swooping in with a single tank army. Optimizing to find the perfect rush can be fun, but sticking it out in tough spots can be more fun since you reach game situations you would never normally get to.

 

[RW*]

It all depends on the start. I have played as Korea Diety DOM with getting Knights on T65 without feudalism boost. In this game I was isolated. The key is seowon placement. If you can survive (whether be civs or barbs) to get out three settlers by turn 40 you are home free. Position the 3 cities in a triangle and careful city planning is necessary. Put the seowons in a triangle shape with at least one square between CC and the next seowon. Goal to have by T60 is 36+ science.

I do the Slinger>Slinger>Worker>Worker>Slinger>Settler(chop). Tech are Pot>Writing(seowon)>Mine(for chop)>Husb>Arch. The reason behind this is that slinger are cheaper to build and have at least 4-6 to upgrade when you drop the 2nd town, the AI will adjust to go for the weaker town than the cap to "survive" the rush. Grab Mangus and get his first two upgrades for settler pop and strategic resource. I love making horsemen without horses around turn 40 if I felt like it.

Surviving the rush is make a semi circle with units, you will have to have an open path to retreat, put the warrior in the city to boost its strength by a couple of points or put one slinger depending on situation. Rotate wounded into the city and focus on level healing if possible. ALWAYS FORTIFY, never attack with the units outside unless is a space free kill to re-fortify. The 2x fortification bonus equals the attack bonus the AI gets.

Note I do play with one mod: The gossip/Combat mod to show how the fort damage works, in the screen that is a barb warrior committing suicide on a fortified warrior.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

I've never tinkered with the strategic resource Magnus ability. Wouldn't that just get you knights without the ability to heal due to the lack of iron or does their being created with that promotion free them from any bindings to iron what-so-ever?

 

[RW*]

I've never tinkered with the strategic resource Magnus ability. Wouldn't that just get you knights without the ability to heal due to the lack of iron or does their being created with that promotion free them from any bindings to iron what-so-ever?

Yes, this is assuming you do not have easy access to iron that you will get to once it survives, that is what I mean by rotating in and out of the city the injured units. Priority of best saving best units is a must.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

Yes, this is assuming you do not have easy access to iron that you will get to once it survives, that is what I mean by rotating in and out of the city the injured units. Priority of best saving best units is a must.

Just to clarify, you're saying the wounded units heal if they are in the city Magnus is established in?

 

[RW*]

No, they will heal once you get the resource or repair it from pillaging. The goal is to save the most expensive in the city while the magnus can build a replacement, if needed. All the magnus will do is allow it to be built. Sometimes you have to make some meat units to survive. I was attacked by a huge ! barb of 3 horse archer, 3 horses, 2 scouts, 1 warrior and the spearman from the camp on turn 19 of that screenie. By rotating and constantly building units you will survive, sometimes you have to run the injured unit out of harms way.

Notice: I have iron by Cit02, but no horses at all in the area, CAP01 is building a horseman with the magnus.

 

[Gaonac'h]

I really don't see the point of hitting stirrups so fast while only being on 3 cities, no treasury and without any heavy chariot.

 

[RW*]

I really don't see the point of hitting stirrups so fast while only being on 3 cities, no treasury and without any heavy chariot.

This is just my way of playing, I see it as a way to get the most mobile and strongest unit available and to earn era bonuses. HC's have to be upgraded, need more techs to produce. With the right policy cards and enough production the knight can be made in a couple turns with chop. 180 production with chivalry policy card, encampment with stable, with magnus, the cost is reduced to the level of an HC at 65-75 production with 48STR that ignores zone of control and upgrades to tanks.

The screenie is prior to me finishing 3x commerce districts with markets. 3x trade routes, getting the trade route great scientist, for a total of 4 trade routes. This post shows that: 1) it is possible, 2) Unit strength and presence is the AI's number one way of making war with you. If they see stronger troops and you are beating them on science they will tend to pick on CS's or the other civ's 3) Fortify is your friend and the highest unit strength in your city will determine how the AI attacks you.

 

[Gaonac'h]

While your are progressing in the civic and tech tree your districts inscrease in cost making early expansion key.
Here you are slowing your developpement by building a lot of districts early on to hit a tech you don't actually need.