Help on Diplo Wins?

[PerpetualMotion]

Basically, what the **** do you have to do to get anyone to vote for you? Do you actually have to have all the votes yourself? Everytime I bring up the vote, I have every other nation abstaining, or once in a great while voting for another AI. These are guys I'm Friendly with with like +8-10 net relationship, I've tried giving away techs to everybody, they vote the same way, (or usually don't vote) no matter what I do. Am I missing something obvious or is there some special trick to currying votes in the UN?

Thx in advance for any help

 

[Shillen]

They vote for me when the sum of the +/- is greater than or equal to 11. I've played two diplo games and I didn't win the first vote either time. But I did win both eventually. In those two games every time the AI was below +11 it would abstain. Every time it was equal to or above +11 it would vote for me.

edit: Oh and this rule doesn't apply when they're voting for other AI's. They seem to vote for the other AI as long as they're not in the negative with them.

 

[Draetor24]

I've won a diplomatic victory once on Noble. Some things I did...

1) Find a religion and spread it hardcore and try to get a lot of civs to convert to this religion. This is the main way to make friends and have good relations.

2) Get a high population so you can have more votes. Make your cities grow as far as they can, with farms if necessary. You can probably do this after Biology, when your farms are better and your cities have more health/happy to support big populations. You might have to lose important infrastructure like towns though. Another way is to just build up a military and take over your enemies towns to gain more land and population.

3) Alliances and defensive pacts with your friends against your common enemies and actually obeying them and helping your friends when you can.

 

[jdotmi]

I make sure I have excellent diplomatic relations with the enough other Civs to grant me a victory. Usually, this involves crushing at least one or two other Civs in the game who are enemies with my allies. Having the same religion as your potential ally Civs helps a lot too.

 

[Draetor24]

I can't remember what my +/- relations was with my allies, but it was into Friendly and pretty high. I always helped them when they asked, and even if they ask to stop trading with a neutral type civ or a pleased civ, I did it, as long as I know my 1st friend has the higher population, aka more voting power.

 

[Astax]

I only won one diplo, I usually go for conquest :/ Only reason Iw on was because I had enough votes for myself I was like 90% into conquest win anyway. My biggest buddy shoudl have voted for me, I didnt check exactly how many + he had, I know we lost a lot when he converted Never let your ally grab a holy city, he will convert to that religion!

 

[Batvanio]

yeh for diplo religion is the key
spread it fast and early
if you dont have open borthers with everybody
choose a guy that you have open borders with that has open borders with other civs and then constanly send him as gift missionarries
which he will use immediately on other civs.

ah and yep - civs with holy cities never convert to other religion then that of the holy city. Holy cities are alo almost impossible to culture flip - I had one completely surrounded with only the city square left and it didnt flip for 50 turns and more - in fact till the end of the game.

 

[Hergrom]

They vote for me when the sum of the +/- is greater than or equal to 11. I've played two diplo games and I didn't win the first vote either time. But I did win both eventually. In those two games every time the AI was below +11 it would abstain. Every time it was equal to or above +11 it would vote for me.

edit: Oh and this rule doesn't apply when they're voting for other AI's. They seem to vote for the other AI as long as they're not in the negative with them.

Yep, I pretty much found the same thing. Other than religion and gifting/trading bonuses, a great way to break the +11 barrier is to change your civics to match your target civ. You can get up to +5 relations if your civics match. That's the way I won my last diplo game.

 

[Panda]

Does manipulating other Civs into a war against your main opponent work like in Civ3?

 

[Corlindale]

If you haven't managed to spread a religion far and wide, and none of the other religions are spread among many AI's, it is probably wisest to switch to Free Religion. Then you will get neither + or - for religions, which might help you, especially if all the AI's depise each other due to different religions.

 

[Hergrom]

Does manipulating other Civs into a war against your main opponent work like in Civ3?

It seems almost impossible to get more than a civ or two to attack an opponent, so the classic civ 3 strategy usually is not an option. Also you need to be very careful because of the intertwining relations amongst all the civs in a game. Pissing off one civ can ruin relations with the rest of them.

In Civ 3, Diplo was a good "fallback" strategy in a game that got away from you, where you were not likely to win by any other method. In Civ 4, you need to plan Diplo from the start, and even then it is difficult even on easy game settings. Certainly not a "fallback".

 

[PerpetualMotion]

In Civ 3, Diplo was a good "fallback" strategy in a game that got away from you, where you were not likely to win by any other method. In Civ 4, you need to plan Diplo from the start, and even then it is difficult even on easy game settings. Certainly not a "fallback".

No, the new "fallback" win (well not exactly new) is Space Race. Far too easy in my opinion. I started a game focussing on spreading my Hinduism, but got stuck on the smaller continent and ran headfirst into a giant Taoist bloc that had been developing unmolested and in peace overseas, spent about a thousand years futilely trying to convert them with missionaries on boats, (They like to take your gold and convert back five turns later),finally got a couple of allies into the 11 range and they actually voted for me, but with many opponents and large map I just ain't never gonna have the votes.
Solution... Space Race! (actually solution: new game with less ai's)

Anyway thanks abunch for your advice, I'll get 'em next time. This forum rocks! I posted my question, checked my e-mail, came back and had four answers already! Kick a@@!

 

[MikeH]

No, the new "fallback" win (well not exactly new) is Space Race.

Actually my only diplo win was a fallback when I realised I wasn't going to win the space race. I already had reasonable relations with the AI civs, so I just built the UN, switched to free religion and called the vote. I failed to achiveve the necessary margin in the first vote so I gifted techs to those who hadn't voted for me and won the second vote. It probably helped that my rival was Cathy, who wasn't too popular with the others after she embarked on a couple of wars of expansion

 

[jeremiahrounds]

I was just thinking about this this morning. I think it requires permanent alliances etc. I didnt try that stuff the couple of times i tried for it. I just worked on space race which was prolly a waste. It might take aiming for right from the bat to get efficient at. Need to find an AI that is typically nice and powerful and get them to be a buddy all game?

 

[PerpetualMotion]

Actually my only diplo win was a fallback when I realised I wasn't going to win the space race. I already had reasonable relations with the AI civs, so I just built the UN, switched to free religion and called the vote. I failed to achiveve the necessary margin in the first vote so I gifted techs to those who hadn't voted for me and won the second vote. It probably helped that my rival was Cathy, who wasn't too popular with the others after she embarked on a couple of wars of expansion

Maybe you can explain something i'm doing wrong. Gifting techs doesn't seem to ever effect diplomacy for me. I've always made a habit of periodically gifting techs and ONE TIME i got a plus one for "you shared the secrets of your technology" can't seem to make it have any effect late game. Do I need to "give away the farm" ie my most advanced techs? Does gifting one tech or several in one meeting have any effect? Sorry for all the questions but I just can't get a handle on how the new diplomacy works.

Thanks again
PerpMo

 

[jeremiahrounds]

i dont know about offering free stuff. But everytime the computer has asked me for free stuff it seems to add +1. There might be caveats to that so we will say "all the times i have thought to look"

 

[MikeH]

Maybe you can explain something i'm doing wrong. Gifting techs doesn't seem to ever effect diplomacy for me. I've always made a habit of periodically gifting techs and ONE TIME i got a plus one for "you shared the secrets of your technology" can't seem to make it have any effect late game. Do I need to "give away the farm" ie my most advanced techs? Does gifting one tech or several in one meeting have any effect? Sorry for all the questions but I just can't get a handle on how the new diplomacy works.

Thanks again
PerpMo

I must admit, I just did it because it seemed the logical thing to do and it seemed to work, I didn't check too closely to see what effect it had. Perhaps it had no effect and Cathy had pee'ed them off a bit more in between the votes, the first vote was very close to me winning anyway. Sorry I can't be more help.

 

[panasonic]

u can always nuke the other civs so u have a higher pop.....

 

[PerpetualMotion]

u can always nuke the other civs so u have a higher pop.....

I might actually do this since in my current game I seem to control all the uranium in the world At least it comes up as a tradeable item for every other civ, that means they have none right? Of course then I might as well go for conquest, drop a couple SODs on my uranium mines and just nuke nuke nuke...

 

[Shillen]

Ok here's a rundown of +/- modifiers you can get:

"Our Open Borders have brought our people close together." - Starts at 0 and after so many years goes to +1 then to +2. I think it resets if the deal ever gets cancelled.

"Years of peace have strengthened our relations." - This starts at 0 and I believe it maxes at +1.

"You gave us help." - This is when the AI asks for something and you give it to them. I've never had it more than +1 so I'm not sure if they'll ever keep asking you for stuff so you can get it higher.

"You have shared your technological discoveries with us." - They asked for a tech and you gave it to them. You get a +1.

"You have wisely chosen your civics." - If you have that leader's preferred civic you get +3.

"We care for our brothers and sisters of the faith." - This goes up with time the longer you share the same religion. It starts at 0 and I've seen it go as high as +5 but it might go even higher than that. This doesn't reset if one of you changes religions and changes back.

"Our mutual military struggle brings us closer together." - I've only seen this at +1 but then I haven't had long drawn out wars with allies so I'm betting it goes higher. This starts at +1 immediately when you are at war with the same civ.

"Our trade relations have been fair and forthright." - Ok you get this whenever you trade anything to the AI and the AI gets a better deal than you do. So if you trade a 2000 beaker tech for a 1000 beaker tech then you will get a + modifier with this statement. It maxes at +4 and is very easy to get it to +4. This also applies with any instant gifts you give, whether it's cash or a technology. Once it's +4 then gifting techs/gold does absolutely nothing for your relations. This will decay over time, though, so if it ever drops below +4 then just make another trade/gift.

"We appreciate the years you have supplied us with resources." - This can take quite a long time to get a bonus for. It starts at 0 and goes to a max of +2. I'm not sure if it matters how many resources you're trading or if you're giving resources to them for free or what. I usually gift a resource to my friends if I have extra just in case.

"We are upset that you have fallen under the sway of a heathen religion." - This one's obvious. You will always have this modifier if you have a different state religion than the AI. It can vary from -1 to -4. I honestly have no idea what determins how negative it is. Most likely it's turn-based like everything else. The longer you're a different religion than them the worst the modifier.

"You have traded with our worst enemies!" - From what I've been able to tell if a civ is "Annoyed" with another civ then they are "worst enemies". So let's say Saladin is Annoyed with Bismarck. If you trade resources or techs with Bismarck you will get a negative modifier with Saladin. I'm not sure if open borders gives any hit as I've never seen it give one (although Saladin might ask you to cancel deals which would include open borders). This modifier ranges from -1 to -4. It will decay over time provided you stop trading with their enemy.

"This war spoils our relationship." - I think this starts at -1 and goes up the longer you stay at war with the AI. It goes up quite rapidly and I don't know if it maxes out. I also don't know if it's based on how many units you kill or cities you take or anything like that. It could be strictly turn based. This goes away when the war is over.

"You declared war on us!" - You get a -1 each time you declare war.

"You brought in a war ally against us!" - This maxes at -1 no matter how many allies you bring in. I'm not sure if it goes away when the war is over or not.

"You refused to stop trading with our worst enemy." - They demand that you cancel deals and you refuse. You get a -1 modifier.

"You negotiated a trade embargo against us." - You asked another civ to stop trading with them. You get a -1.

"You razed a holy city." - I think you get a -1 with all civs for each holy city you raze.

"You declared war on our friend." - If the AI is "Pleased" with another AI then they are "friends". If you declare war on that AI then you get a -1 modifier. Note, they don't have to have been friends when you declared war. It goes by whether they're friends right now or not. One time Isabella asked me to join her in her war aganist Victoria. I accepted and then 5 turns later after Isabella made peace I had a -1 with her for declaring war on her friend (Victoria).

"You refused to give us tribute!" - You get a -1. I don't think it can go worse.

"You razed one of our cities!" - I think this is just -1 no matter how many cities you raze but I"m not sure about this one either.

I don't know anything about defensive pacts as I never sign them. When I win diplomatically I never have the tech for this yet.

I'm sure there are a couple other modifiers I missed so feel free to contribute if you know one.