Help with Dune Scenario

[Yuri2356]

An Idea just hit me, worms could be spawned at "spice blows" (barbarian uprisings)
you would get a number of worms that start to roam the desert, and then the barb leader would be immobile (a patch of spice) waiting to be "harvested" by any of your units.

 

[LaserSquad]

I think there was a fantasy scenario where some enemies look like ordinary trees. Maybe the worms could be invisible and have 0 movement, so the player won't know where they are until they bump into one.

An alternative is giving them sub-like stealth and 0 movement points. That way they would appear when attacked.

 

[Yuri2356]

Thing is, the worms move arround the planet hunting things, so it makes sense to just make them stealth barbs.

 

[Nylan]

I liked the game, so this should be good. Make spice be the only thing that gives you sheilds.

I was also thinking that you have no food production until you build a wind trap (i like the wind trap idea). Of course, for that, you would need to ensure that your settler did not dissappear after building the city, and that wind traps need like 1/2 turn to build. Also, rocks must be in clusters, so that the civs can be more centralized and organized (and the worms dont gobble up every unit outside the city).

Let me know if you need clarification or more advice, cuv I would be happy to help out.


and btw,
ORDOS RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Joeb WK]

Heres some good Dune units done by this Reno person for a Dune scenario he never finished.

 

[LaserSquad]

Those units are cool. It would be a shame to waste them...

 

[drug]

i have made only 2 units... combat tank & ornithopter
hope i will make more soon.

 

[citizen001]

whoa! talk about authentic units! what's the deviator gonna look like?

 

[drug]

i think this picture will be usefull in making pedia....

 

[Nylan]

I hope you do a good job on the sonic tank.

 

[yoshi]

Originally posted by Yuri2356:
An Idea just hit me, worms could be spawned at "spice blows" (barbarian uprisings) you would get a number of worms that start to roam the desert, and then the barb leader would be immobile (a patch of spice) waiting to be "harvested" by any of your units.

Nice. If it weren't for the fact that there are comabt units with 'attack air' ability in this scen, I'd say make the Diplomat an immobile air unit (assuming that works--never tried it but it should work, technically) and a 'Harveser' unit (only unit with 'attack air' ability, but very weak so that it can't do much damage to other air units) that has to be sent out to extract it.

Originally posted by LaserSquad:
An alternative is giving them sub-like stealth and 0 movement points. That way they would appear when attacked.

But as Yuri2356 said, the worms are supposed to go around gobbling stuff up (or so I remember from the movie ). Thing is, you can't give it the 'submarine' ability because this flag has a secondary effect of preventing units from attacking land squares--that's part of the "submarine advantages/disadvantages." The only alternative is to make the Worm unit invisible (as in blank image) but this means that the worms will always be invisible even when they attack. Not that it's really a gameplay problem, it's just that graphics-wise it will be a little lame. Of course, if you have ToT then you can just give it the 'Invisible' ability, which doesn't have the 'submarine' flag's disadvantages.

Originally posted by Nylan:
Make spice be the only thing that gives you sheilds.

So unit maintenance will be dependent on Spice? Or are the units not to cost maintenance (i.e. MGE - all civs Fundamentalisms; ToT - units have free support ability)? The former woudl be interesting as it would actually make military expansion inevitable, if only to obtain Spice. Although, is this how Dune is meant to work?

Those units by Reno are quite good. Are they taken from another source (e.g. game) or did he design them from scratch?

 

[Yuri2356]

The thing about the spice is, it's the most valuable comodity in the universe. It's produced natuarally, as a by product of Sandworm reproduction. A bunch of larval worms (called "sandtrout") gather togeather under the sand and meld togeather into an adult worm. The process gives off a lot of moisture and oxygen. When the pressure builds to sufficient levels, there is an explosion (spice blow) that forces the gooey leftovers to the surface, where they dry out and become spice.
Because of the way this works, spice would not be a permanent terrain bonus, but rather a one-time deal as I suggested before.

Shield production could easily be derived from the various mountain ranges and rock formations.

And yes, worms are quite agressive. They are drawn to anything which produces a rythmic vibration in the sand (like say, footsteps) It will then surface for a moment, and skim the surface as it gets closer to the target, eating anything in it's way. Once it gets closer it dives below the sand and comes up beneath it's pray, securing the kill. That's how they eat hrvesters at least.

 

[Joeb WK]

In reply to yoshis question I dont know how he made them but you can download them in the units download section.Ive just heard from drug that the person making this scenario has given up on it.

 

[Nylan]

Yes, Yoshi, it would have to be fundy, unless...say...spice was found in barbarian huts in large quantities and the huts re-spawned. It might work...but then again, the key word there is MIGHT.

 

[yoshi]

@Nylan: But Goody Huts give other stuff too so even if it did work, the other 'goodies' would get in the way.

@Joeb Wan Kenobi: Oh, never mind. I was just asking because the only way I've been able to achieve that level of detail is by actually scanning a picture or drawing it myself--getting proper shadowing is way too hard using the mouse.

@Yuri2356: Some funky $hit, those Dune worms!

Shield production: I messed with this once, using shields as Oil (special 'Supply Depot' shield-producing tiles next to certain strategic cities). When certain Oil-producing cities were taken by the enemy, the defender would lose Supply Depts, thus would lose the ability to maintain units--after a delay that would give the defender the chance to get the city back. I made it so that you would actually get extra supplies (Oil) when taking cites with Supply depots so you would be able to make up for the oss of your Oil-producing cities. Made for some excellent civing.

I figured Spice could serve a more strategic purpose along those lines; namely to force players to risk eveything and anything to get it.


I was also messing with another idea (using ToT): what about using a third map (the second being the subterranian 'worms only' map) for outer space; i.e. other planets and spaceships...assuming the Dune story include space warfare. You could set up 'Spice-routes' between planets and eventually dominate that whole system, quadrent, galaxy, whatever.
Map 3 would play like an extended game only events on Map 1 (Dune map) would affect the former. You could even set up a transport site on the Dune planet (map 3) and allow only foot units to enter Map 1--of course, the other planets would not have world maps of their own (unless you just wanted one of those planets to use the fourth available map).
I know another map is complicating an already sophisitcated scen, but...when in Rome.

 

[Yuri2356]

Some funky $hit, those Dune worms!

Indeeed they are.

There is probably some space combat, but not much. Mostly because all faster-than-light space travell is monopolized by the Spacing guild. Their navigators are the only people who have any Idea how to safley fold space, bringing you from A to B quick and safley. Of corse, that makes them quite powerfull. They don't need an army to make noble houses Fear them. Even the Emporer is at their mercy. In one hilarious part of one of the novels, the emporer had been working on a secret project to crate an artifical substitute for spice. With it, he would gain complete controll of the empire (as spice is required for the navigators to do what they do, and almost everyone in the empire is hooked on the stuff ) The project fails, but while he thinks that he has his new sorce of spice he goes after the Harkonnens (who at the time controll Dune) to bust them for illegal Spice hoarding. After he's gathered all the evidence he needs, he orders his fleet to get ready to bombard Dune and destroy everything on the surface. So the guild Highliner that brought them there contacts Shadamm (the Emporer) and they're all like:
"What do you think you're doing?"
"I'm destroying this plannet."
"Don't even think about it"
"And what're you gonna do to stop me?"
"Abandon you."
"What???"
Then the highligner just pops through a rift and leaves them there.

 

[yoshi]

Okay, so space combat is limited by the Teir navigators. Well, since I don't know much about the Dune series maybe you could think up some way of incorperating their presence into the space map. Something that would limit the use of space (e.g. immobile 'Tier Navigator' units block space-space transport sites; moving ships between planets without using transport sites takes forever--make sure the map is big and ships very slow).

 

[Yuri2356]

I meant "their" it was a typo and I've edited it now.
I'd say you'd be best off not including the guild at all. The effect they have on the Dune universe is too complicated to be part of a Civ2 Scenario. Instead, just give everyone naval units that can only operate on the space map. They would be frigates, destroyers, transports, the usual space crap.

 

[yoshi]

The effect they have on the Dune universe is too complicated to be part of a Civ2 Scenario.

You could just imply their presence. It's just the decision-making capability that's hard; random decision perhaps (e.g. x chance that guild will give gold necessary to sustain warp gate--transporter--or whatever).

But actually, I though of an amendment to the example I proposed earlier: why not divide up the space map by impassable terrain or units. Then using transporters (navigators) would be a must, otherwise you couldn't get your ships between systems. The guild presence is simulated by blocking the transport sites when various parts of the empire make war (unit--ship?--killed). You could even make this random by use of flags and a random action like, 'Guild decides to allow hostilities to continue.'
Or it could be something simple like the taking or giving of a tech from the agressor (e.g. taking of NP--slower ship movement; giving of obsolete tech for +2 ship movment wonder).
The idea is to add an interesting factor to the usual space scen.

 

[Yuri2356]

I have had a revelation!
In order to show the guild in your scenario you surround each planet/system in impassible terrain, except for a few squares that forms paths to other systems. This square would be blocked by an immobile "highliner" unit, that would be romoved for X number of turns if you bribe it (pay the fee) with a "Trade ship" of some kind (ship with diplomat abilities) This could simulate the cost of moving groups of units from system to system quite well.