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Help with Immortal Toku Pangea

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by DanielTorrence, Aug 10, 2015.

  1. DanielTorrence

    DanielTorrence Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    283
    Location:
    Germany
    Hi everybody,

    I played a random pangea game with Tokugawa. Since I found marble I thought drafting would be nice for a change. The tech pace of the game was rather slow, I took nationalism from Lib although I surely could have gone deeper in the tech tree.
    So I had some nice upgraded CR2-Samurais and a couple of drafted rifles for my first opponent. The bad thing is now:

    Spoiler :

    Gengis Khan became way to powerful. He capped Izzy early in the game and Wang recently. Its only a question of time when I will become the next target. My plan is to
    1) quickly vassal Brennus and Ragnar in that order
    2) but what after that? How to attack a 16 city Gengis :confused: even with a tech lead (which will surely vanish soon.


    Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Starting save and current save are attached. Thanks in advance.

    View attachment AutoSave_Initial_v. Chr.-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave

    View attachment Frank n. Chr.-1555.CivBeyondSwordSave
     
  2. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    You don't have to fear a big AI, as long as you got a stack that can compare in size and tech. As you said, you'll probably want more cities, to have a greater production-power, but Genghis is as bad in war, as every other AI. He'll park his stack in one city, which you can take out with Siege. Just make sure, he stays peaceful enough, so get yourself a lot of peace-treaties or bribe him against your targets and see that you're faster in capturing the cities. Maybe let him capture one non-hills-city, then he'll park a great part of his military in a 20% culture non-hills-city, making them easy to kill. If you still need numbers: A parked stack in a far away city also costs enormous maintenance, so you can expect Genghis to tech slower.
     
  3. oranje willem

    oranje willem Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2009
    Messages:
    323
    You have rifling, while Genghis Khan is not even close to it. There is a huge time window to abuse this advantage. You can go for a very slow push with trebs support or first fix your economy a bit and get cannons in there as well. Make sure you have a reasonably sized stack, because huge numbers can still hurt rifleman.
     
  4. DanielTorrence

    DanielTorrence Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    283
    Location:
    Germany
    unfortunately there isn't...he will get rifling in like ten turns from the save. I managed to take two of his core cities, but he attacked me near my capital with a huge SOD, whipping out like 15 rifles with CGII and III and drill II and III. I dont think I can reinforce my capital in time..Too bad, should have bribed him out before he could vassal Wang, but then he would have turned to me or to Brennus earlier...win some, loose some;)

    View attachment AutoSave_n. Chr.-1630.CivBeyondSwordSave
     
  5. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    22,457
    Location:
    UK
    Okay his stack is still some way off. Your border city is almost irrelevant. It's a size 6 city that means little to you. The Ai are pretty silly and will bombard it fully. He will probably lose a few units attacking it too.

    Where you are failing is you are at war with the Mongols and you are building a lot of non military stuff. Rifles and whip/draft. Switching to nationhood would allow you to draft 5-6 rifles. Really not sure why you are building trebs here. Focus on rifles as his cuirs will chew up your trebs in stacks.

    If you knew you had a monster like GK on your border you should always be looking for his stack!! His 2 vassels are meaningless. They have barely 1-2 cities and probably very few units. What does not help you here is fact your border with GK is so long.

    Good luck playing on. This does not look impossible. Your rifles should win 70+% of all combats vs his stack.

    On 1630ad save he will take a ceasefire. I would rather take his mids city first.
     
  6. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    6,819
    There are a lot of little things you could improve on in your 1555 AD save.

    -First thing to do is secure some trades with Washington now that he's your vassal. I assume you just hadn't done this yet, but it's very important. Trade him Iron for a bunch of resources. You can get horses + rice + 3 happiness resources i think. After that trade him your techs for Chemistry so that you can work towards Steel. Cannons can win pretty much ANY Immortal game.

    -You have multiple units in way too many cities. Stacking some in your capitol for the HR bonus can be good to let it grow, but there little reason to have more than 1 in most other cities. This is just costing you a bunch of gpt. The decent units should be joined with your stack. The weakest should be left behind as city guards. Any extras should be deleted if you really need money. If/when you get Cannons some of the 6-8str units could still be valuable for mop up, but you really have a lot of those right now.

    -Market in Kyoto when you have +5 happy there (+8 extra Roosevelt trades) is really just not needed. I assume you are worried about your economic situation since you are negative gpt at 0% slider, but the market is only going to add 18gpt at 0%, and none at all if/when you turn the 100% research slider back on. With access to rifles i would be looking for capture and pillage gold rather than sinking big hammers into a market.

    -Lots of treb production very late in the game. This only makes sense if you can upgrade them to cannons soon. You already have 11 though which is probably adequate for bombarding some defenses. I would probably stop treb production and focus on rifles.

    -Crossbow in Nagoya? Why?

    -Forge builds are maybe OK, but this is getting kind of late for them. Will they pay off this late? Probably, but depends how long the game lasts.

    -Library in Etruscan when it already has 3 culture / turn and doesn't produce much commerce? This has clearly turned into a military game so a library that adds maybe 4 bpt doesn't make sense vs building a unit.

    -IMO attacking Ragnar doesn't make sense. He's small and looking pretty harmless and if he's really Friendly with you you have nothing to worry about on that front. It's much more important to go after the big fish while you still have a tech advantage.

    -It looks like you never assigned EPs to anyone. You have them split amongst everyone which means to you don't have enough on anyone to do anything useful with them. If you had focused them on Ghenghis for awhile you might be close enough to see his cities with a little bit more investment. As it stands now it would just cost a bunch of gold and quite a few turns to get to that point.

    -The German log is making this kind of difficult for me, but it looks like Mongolia was fighting Korea fairly recently so my assumption would be that his stack is over there somewhere. It needs to be found a scouted. You have a lot of idle workers and those seem to be your only 2-move units so i would use a couple of those to try to scout him out quickly.

    -In the mean time i would draft 3 rifles per turn, try to organize units a bit (shuffle around, delete, etc), and maybe move the bulk of your units SE towards Satsuma as it's unlikely you will want them up there where they are now.
     

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