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kkapalk

Warlord
Joined
Apr 29, 2006
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238
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england
I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice. I am still struggling on Noble level. I play Warlords with the patch. Currently I am playing against Catherine, and as usual I am slowly slipping away in terms of score and power. I will post the save so anyone who could look at it and give advice would be greatly appreciated. I figure it is something to do with specialists, maybe.
Thanks a lot.
 

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This is actually a Vanilla save, not Warlords?
You haven't discovered Catherine yet, so I assume you put her in the game?

You're playing Romans without metal hooked up! And it's AD already! :eek:
I would have hooked up either the copper and ESPECIALLY the iron long ago...that would certainly solve your power issues.

As a matter of fact, you haven't hooked up quite a few resources with roads. Do that and it will help both health and happiness. You seem to be spamming cottages (which is fine, but the resources really help).

Get Alphabet! You can see what the other Civs have techwise and possibly trade to improve your own score?

You seem to be concentrating on religion spread and expansion, which is fine (except that you're Rome, whose UU is specifically geared for baning heads together), but will strain your economy. Combined with lack of power, you're setting up the map for someone else to streamroll you and your cities.

Hook up metal.
Crank military.
Watch out for Mongolians! ;)
 
Thanks for the reply Sarek. But like an idiot I have uploaded the wrong save. I went to the vanilla folder,not Warlords. I include the right one here. I have played a while longer than when I first posted, but am still lacking. Would greatly appreciate you looking at THIS, the right save.
Thanks,
Kev.
 

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Just checked out the save. Here's a few initial observations, not so much about what to do now as about what's happened so far:
-You're running a pure cottage economy with a philosophical leader. Not a single GP farm as far as I can tell. Even if you don't like specialist economies, it's generally a good idea to run at least one super GP farm, especially if you're philosophical. You've generated 21 great people, though--have you replaced some farms with cottages?
-It seems that all your cites are commerce cities--sort of. You seem to be trying to balance commerce and production in each city rather than specializing your cities. It's better to specialize.
-Also, I generally prefer to minimize overlap between cities' fat crosses. Cities cost money, so it's usually best to grab as much useful land as possible with as few cities as possible.
-You're running a CE, but you haven't researched democracy--universal suffrage and emancipation are high priorities for cottage economies.
-Conquest is the only victory condition enabled, but you have only minimal military.
Besides switching to state property and free religion, I'm not sure what you should do. You'll need some production cities, and you'll also need to get to industrialism and combustion soon so you can build tanks (I take it that settler's headed for the oil? He should be.). Don't know if that'll be enough, or if you have enough time to pull of a conquest victory, but if you can grab enough land from Russia, you might manage a time victory. In the future, you might want to play on epic or marathon speed when going for conquest or domination on huge maps.
One more question: where are all the happiness resources? I only see one source of each (except for silver and whales) on the entire map!
 
What is up with all of those Preist specialists - if you are researching physics Great Prophets are the last thing you want.

Why are you in merchantalism and not state property??? With a large empire there is no other choice - it also has a lot more synergy with production cities ---v

I'd have to agree with Norton on specializasion. Your average city is in the middle of a bunch of grass (i assume ex-jungle) with a few mines for production. While this is great, its much better to have 1 pure cottage city near a river and 1 pure production city near hills/workshops with state property --^ than it is to have 2 cities with half and half - you then only need to focus on a certain type of infastructure for each city
 
Thanks for the replies. Norton, I see your point about specialization. I did think this was one of the problems. What I fail to grasp is, say I was focusing on production in a city, building mines and workshops, surely the city will stop growing before very long if I choose to ignore farms and windmills. Likewise, concentrating on farms for a city would lead to no production for that city, so it could not build any improvements in a decent amount of time. I also find it hard to dip into a city and take a citizen from the fat cross and set him to specialize as that usually results in the city going into starvation or losing lots of gold or production. I know I must be wrong in my views, just find it hard to grasp. I see now your point about the Philosophical leader needing the gp farm, I will have to come to terms with the idea of a city with farms and no production so I can produce great people. I tend to follow the advice in the game for choosing techs, maybe this is wrong. Also I did feel the blue circles indicating a good place to settle were often too far away from the previous city, but assumed the game's hint of a site was better than my choice. I know I am behind in military, I do tend to try to improve my cities rather than build strong armies, (probably wrong again). I set the game to conquest only as it seems easier to me knowing the AI cannot sneak another kind of victory. I have noticed the lack of happiness resources, maybe just bad luck.
Betafor, I did switch to state property for a short time, but then started to lose ground on the AI, so went back to Mercantalism, assuming the extra speicalists were a help. I often find it hard to determine which improvement to build with workers. Is it generally good to concentrate on just mines and workshops for a production city? Like I said earlier, I see this as sending the city into a stagnant position before long. Maybe this isn't as bad as I seem to think. The loss of one food for the workshop particularly puts me off. When I see a city with a good excess of food, (which most people would add food producing improvements to), I will add a forge because the level of production is so low and improvements are slow to be built. I think I need to re-assess my strategies and concentrate on a particular game plan. I have cottage spammed because I have read on threads on this site it is the thing to do, but maybe to a lesser extreme!
I have had some successes playing at Noble, but they were usually with more than one opponent, and probably due to the fact I could tech trade with them. Probably my largest error is following the advice of the AI regarding buidings, site locations and techs.
Thanks for the replies, I think I have learned something.
Kev.
 
Thanks for the replies. Norton, I see your point about specialization. I did think this was one of the problems. What I fail to grasp is, say I was focusing on production in a city, building mines and workshops, surely the city will stop growing before very long if I choose to ignore farms and windmills.

You're right: before state property, you need some farms (and maybe some windmills) in order to keep the city growing and support the citizens working the mines and workshops. It's best to look at the city's fat cross, add up the food that each tile produces, and subtract that number from 40 to determine how many farms and windmills you'll need. After switching to SP, you can replace some of your farms with watermills and probably change some windmills to mines and some farms to workshops.
Likewise, concentrating on farms for a city would lead to no production for that city, so it could not build any improvements in a decent amount of time.
Don't forget the whip! If you find a city site with three or more food bonuses and some grasslands, you've got a GP farm in the making. Just maximize your food output and whip whatever buildings you'll need. You can stay in slavery and whip buildings to support specialists if you're not too particular about what sort of great people you'll produce, or you can whip some happiness improvements, then switch to caste system and run as many merchants, scientists, or artists as your food surplus and happiness limit can support. Also, if the city's got a couple of hills in its fat cross, you can occasionally reassign specialists to those hills and build whatever you need.
I also find it hard to dip into a city and take a citizen from the fat cross and set him to specialize as that usually results in the city going into starvation or losing lots of gold or production.I know I must be wrong in my views, just find it hard to grasp.
That's why you need a large food surplus in your GP farms. For other cities, assigning specialists is one way to keep the city from going over the happiness limit if you don't want to whip.
I tend to follow the advice in the game for choosing techs, maybe this is wrong. Also I did feel the blue circles indicating a good place to settle were often too far away from the previous city, but assumed the game's hint of a site was better than my choice.
Click here to see what comes of following the game's advice on everything. That's not to say its advice is always bad, just that your judgment is often much better.
I know I am behind in military, I do tend to try to improve my cities rather than build strong armies, (probably wrong again). I set the game to conquest only as it seems easier to me knowing the AI cannot sneak another kind of victory. I have noticed the lack of happiness resources, maybe just bad luck.
I'm a builder at heart myself, but recently I've been learning the value of building axemen, for example, instead of wonders. I had to learn a similar lesson in Civ3, which favors the warmonger even more. It probably wasn't as important in this game, where there were only two civs on a huge map, but unless you wanted a time victory, you'd have to build up some troops sooner or later. Also, I think the number of civs might have had something to do with the lack of happiness resources--it works like that in Civ3, anyway.
BTW, do you still have the starting save?
 
Thanks very much for the reply Norton, really appreciated. I must admit I have never used the whipping technique. I really need to expand my use of the civics. Isn't there a happpiness penalty for whipping? Like I said, I do better when there are other civs to tech trade with (Catherine's tech's are all greyed out)! Very interesting thread about the AI choices.

Don't forget the whip! If you find a city site with three or more food bonuses and some grasslands, you've got a GP farm in the making. Just maximize your food output and whip whatever buildings you'll need. You can stay in slavery and whip buildings to support specialists if you're not too particular about what sort of great people you'll produce, or you can whip some happiness improvements, then switch to caste system and run as many merchants, scientists, or artists as your food surplus and happiness limit can support. Also, if the city's got a couple of hills in its fat cross, you can occasionally reassign specialists to those hills and build whatever you need.

^This paragraph was really helpful, made a lot of sense. Simply put and easy to grasp. Thanks. That will help me no end.
Believe it or not, I have just started to edge ahead of Catherine in terms of score, maybe all those cottages are starting to mature, I'm not really sure, though I am still only around two thirds of her power. The trouble is, she has decided to be annoyed with me now, and has closed borders. So I am now generating as large an army as possible!
Sorry, I do not have the original save, as I just overwrite the same save each time.
Thanks again,
Kev.
 
The unhappiness penalty for whipping is one additional :mad: for 10 turns on normal speed every time you whip. It's 5 turns on quick, 15 on epic, and 30 on marathon. So you can whip once every 10 turns without much trouble, or if something's really important, you can whip more than once and just deal with more unhappiness for a little while. If you have the Globe Theatre in one of your cities, that city will have no unhappiness, so you can whip or draft all you want there (as long as you have enough population).

Glad I could help, and it's good to hear that you've pulled ahead of Cathy in score. Unless she jumps you, you might be able to hunker down and pull off a time victory. BTW, what civics are you using? If you haven't already switched to free religion, doing so might bring her back to cautious. Also, I assume you've switched to US, free speech, and emancipation by now. With all those cottages, you should be able to close the technology gap and pull your score even higher. But you might consider just farming some of your newer cities since population also helps your score.
 
I followed your advice and swithched to free religion and universal sufferage (I was already using the other civics you mentioned). You was right, she went to cautious and soon after opened borders again! I am now currently 350 points ahead and gaining all the time, building military and improvements at a steady rate. If I can just keep her appeased things should be okay. I cannot get a time victory as this is disabled, will have to go for the conquest. The map is so big and my empire so sprawled out I think I need airports all over to quickly defend when attacked. I am posting another save to show you how things have progressed.
Thanks,
Kev.
 

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My mistake--for some reason I thought you couldn't disable time victory. Conquest it is, then. There's one other civic you might consider adopting: state property. I tested it from your save, and switching to SP will let you run 80% research without a deficit. Unless you're saving money for upgrades, you can also run at 100% science for a few turns before you have to drop the slider again. Also, if you generate another GP, you can build the Dai Miao in Dusseldorf.
 
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