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Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by c_pablo, Mar 13, 2010.

  1. c_pablo

    c_pablo Chieftain

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    Generally my games end in disaster it week, or i am so backward in technology, or i am i have a so small army
     

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  2. c_pablo

    c_pablo Chieftain

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    It is my other game, in regent.Dont much difference, i concretate in quality it time, and build the colosus to have a super cience city.Result:The azter have many times my army in swordmens, i cant upkeep my tiny army...
     

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  3. Bucephalus

    Bucephalus Shooting from the lip....

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    Welcome to CFC. :)

    I've only had time for a brief look at your Byzantines game, and really it's not nearly as bad as I expected to find.

    Two things stand out immediately:

    1) You are placing your cities too far apart; the result of this is that you own many tiles that you cannot work with your citizens. You could have fitted another three or four cities in your core - that's three or four cities more for producing the military that you want.

    2) You are researching techs despite the fact that you have the Great Library. Perhaps you do not know but if you have the GL you will receive free techs every time they become known by two tribes that you have met, and will continue to do so until it becomes obsolete (when you learn Education).

    There are many useful articles on various aspects of the game in these forums; try browsing through the 'War Academy'.
     
  4. c_pablo

    c_pablo Chieftain

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    i take many tips from war academy, and i did some like it in my aztec game, try see it when you have time, i am the biggest empire and my military is good, i outnumber all the other civs, but i have it hard to keep in front of research race and i am very back in wonders and production.And it was made in monarch, specially agaistan americans(these guys allway are a tech foward me) and mayans.¿Why i have always the same problems whit the these civs?

    Another question
    how is feudalism like gov??it looks like a worse monarchy and it foward in tech, with many republic problems and is foward in the tech trhee
    What about "Favourite" and "Shunned" goverments?I never saw the ai following their favourite gov...
     
  5. creamcheese

    creamcheese Spreading since 1990

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    Do you have the option 'culturally linked start locations' turned on? it sounds like you're always running into the same civs, and I think its a bug. Try turning this option off for a little variety.

    Feudalism is good only in very specific circumstances, like if you want a 100k cultural victory or you have very little food; you are correct to assume its mostly useless.

    The favourite and shunned governments doesn't affect the AI's choice of governments very much as far as I know. It matters in diplomacy, if you are in the AI's shunned gov they won't like you, and if you are in their favored government they will like you [I think that's how it works].
     
  6. c_pablo

    c_pablo Chieftain

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    Yes and thanks for the solution.Too, i let the game choose my oponents Random.And yes, i am often fighting agaistan americans and mayan, with incas helping(or Being conquered by me)
     
  7. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    Finally got some time to peek at the first save Egypt. Here is some feedback FWIIW.

    Looking at the first game 760AD as Cleo on Warlord, I would self promote by saying read my tutorial. First thing I note is this is a huge game. I think it is fine to play huge maps, but not till you have played a number of std maps. I feel that a huge map makes the game too easy for humans, especialy on levels were the AI has no real bonus.

    Next I see that you are in 760AD and have not even discovered the next land mass completely and only met China. There are 14 more nations out there. One advanage the human has, is that they will send out boats at the risk of their sinking.

    This means you have a chance to get in some monoploy trades. You should have ownership of your continent by 760AD.

    So why is that not the case? One possible contributor is the wide spacing of towns. Yes, some like that, but if you do, you have to develop it sooner. The biggest arguement against it, is that you are likely to win the game, before you learn Sanitation and can grow past city size.

    That means those 21 tiles have 9 dead ones. At best they are dead for more than half the game and possibly the whole game. Not to mention that I advocate not even learning Sanitation in most games.

    The first town I look at is not an uncommon sight. Abydos has a granary, from Pryamid, Lib and a Wall. It embarked on a temple project. These are unfortunately about the worst things you could be doing here.

    Granary, you lost a lot of ground that you will not make up building the wonder, unless you got an SGL to rush it.

    Lib you make 1 beaker and are not growing. so what did the lib do for you? Well it cost you 80 shields or the equivelent.

    Wall, you are on a hill already and are playing Warlord, why make a wall?

    You have 3 workers for 21 or so towns. I would say 25 would be a minimum number and that would be for much tighter spacing. With this spacing I would want 50-75 workers. You have a lot of tiles to work.

    A good plan would have been to explore early and have found that choke and block it. Then fill in all the land behind the choke quick as you can, before galleys bring settlers.

    BTW you could cut two turns of the wonder by just moving the citizen off the tile being mined to one already mined.

    You hand built a wall in the capitol on Warlord? Lost 10 shields there at point were you need workers, settlers.

    I would say the Great Wall is not a wonder I would build, you do not need it to fend off Warlord AI's or barbs. If this was Civ4, that would be different. The lack of workers meant that the capitol is not getting the number of shields per turn it should.

    You could have had the other hill mined and move off the forest to the irrigated grass and move the 1 shield grass pop to that hill. Better yet run 10 lux and put those two jokers back to work. Jokers are the bane of production and really should not be used in the core, except in rare situations.

    You could probably have dropped 5 or 6 turns off the wonder. 20 spears and 12 pikes is over kill on this level and only one civ to deal with on this landmass. You are paying 12gpt for support, why? It is mainly due to not having 40 town or more at this point.

    I follow Aeson's advice from years ago, try playing without making spears below Emperor (std rule, not AW). Let's relax that a bit and go for 4-6 spears. That is plenty. Swords are more useful.

    You are making 5 pikes/spears at this point to what end? I think you had 4 MDI going up, how are you going to pay for all this extra support cost? You can't, had you enough workers to get roads up, you may be able to or close to it.

    I doubt you need the barracks going up another 1gpt to pay.

    Lisht is making a harbor. It is size 2 with no green or brown flat tiles. I am not in favor of improving these types of towns in the main. I would have just left the place size 1 on wealth and built nothing there at all. In fact I would fill all the tundra with close spaced towns with a size 1 pop on science and take my 3 beakers and 1 gold.

    Another price being paid is the lib in Buto. Had you had the workers, you could have chopped it up in a hurry.

    The final set back is the FP. It is 67 turns out. The town is not growing, so will not speed up. I suspect the double whamming of not reaching the OCN sooner and not putting it in a better town. I would submit 760AD is very late for the FP.

    In short you got off to a slow start and the lack of workers is dragging you down. Even the Warlord AI will gear eventually.
     
  8. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    Regent Az 960AD. Looking at the game as it loads, I see almost no exploring was done. I am guessing that the reason you know 7 of the 15 others, is they found you.You missed out on lower cost for techs from the contact with others.
    You missed out on trade opportunities, where you met someone and your neighbors do not have the contact.

    If this was a much higher level, that could amount to nothing at all, but on Regent I would expect you would have at least a chance to make a trade.

    I have to say I am too depressed to go further. I really dislike the idea of giving two lux to someone, especially for zero lux in return. I am not going to do that and would rather go down fighting.

    You gave 2 lux to two nations, so you are supporting thier progress. RoP's are not to made without a very good reason. At Regent, I doubt one exist. You do not need to go after someone far away, even if they are at war with you. Let them send units for you to kill.

    RoP means the AI gets to wander around your land and learn where the tiles are located. Yes they know of the tiles and what is on them, but they act as if they do not know how to find it. IOW it is like when you make an embassy with someone you met via trading contacts.

    You now see the capitol in the distance and it has fog around it. You do not know what the path is like to get there. This is how they act, until they explore or get your map. Do not let this happen, until you are set up.

    You have the same wide spacing and that means defending will not be easy. I do not mean that a landing could take out a town, it may be the pikes could stop that, but they could not stop pillaging.

    BTW nice move to plant the town next to the volcano. You may luck out and it will not dump lava on the town or the grass tiles, why take the chance?

    Making about 7 musket and you are not even at war. Knights are a much better investment.

    I wonder where you started that you moved the settler and moved it to the grass tile? I would rather settle in place, if I was already on the river or lake. If not then could I move to a plains tile instead of a grass one?

    You need to make some effort to manage your citizens. Tiwanaku should put the joker to work. If on the trees you cut two turns off the aqua. You gain 1 beaker as well.

    The most important town placements are the ones you place around the capitol. Those will have the least corruption, so place them carefully.

    I suspect some of the lux were traded for tech, that can be fine, but you should be the leader by the MA. If not or nearly the leader, evaluate your empire management.

    Is this a game where you fell behind in tech later or were too weak? You should be in a solid position, in spite of some things not being optimal.
     
  9. c_pablo

    c_pablo Chieftain

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    I though what i did better things in it.I am the first super power and i am advanced in tech trhee
     

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  10. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    Looks like you have contacts with most of the nations, never circumnavigated the map, about half of it. First looked at the tech tree and see researching Navigation, why? I guess you want the wonder, why? This is a pan map and you have no real need for Nav or Magel.

    It is far better to stick to the required techs and get out of the age quicker. I would only go for MT as an optional tech. If you feel compelled to build the wonder, then trade for Nav, while building a palace to switch to at that time. The AI will race for Nav anyway.

    You selected Monarchy, there is only one reason to use that form and that is to war. That means MT is a very important tech for you.

    Still work can be done on many towns, such as Murcia. Move the pop off the mountain to the river grass. You lose 1 net shield, but gain either a scientist or a taxman, your choice. The uni still finishes in 5 turns. Now had you gotten the tiles improved as you should have, you would be working a river grass with a road and a mine.

    Valencia 12 beakers and makes a uni. I accept that it may be valid, but to me it is not a good idea for a Monarchy. Better to make troops or bombardment units. If I got this right, you have 12 gold and 2 corrupt for a 10 net. You get 50% for 5 and total is 15 commerce. It is split 3 for tax and 12 for science.

    So you are investing 200 shields and paying 2 maint to gain 3 net beakers. That does not seem to be a way to go for a Monarchy. You could have nearly 3 more knights and 3 knights could take down a town. If you do not intend to war continuosly or nearly so, consider Republic instead. Then uni's in this town would gain more and you would not want 3 more knights.

    Marseilles is making a musket a 60 turn project. Not a good plan, unless this was AW and even then it may not be required. I do like the fact that you made the lone pop a scientist here.

    Zaragoza has a joker, but has plenty of happy faces?

    I won't review all the towns as I think in the three post have given enough ideas on how to look at towns. The last thing I want you to consider is the wonder process you are embarked upon.

    First Leo is going up in the 5th/4th best town. I did not look to see if any could be improved. None is making Copes. The best town is about to finish Sistine.

    To me there is no reason to waste shields on Sistine for a Monarchy. There is almost no reason to make any cathedrals. I could see making one in a metro, if things worked out were I could fit that in.

    To that end I would switch Sistines to Leo as it will pay for itself in this game. I would switch maybe Persep to Copes and if you must them the Leo could go for Sistine. The only thing I cannot factor into this is how far along the AI is on these, if at all.

    If I had been playing all along, I would have a good idea of how many shields they have into any wonder. It could be you can put Copes in the capitol instead and still get Leo.

    I see a worker sleeping in town?

    I see a few places have three units, while border towns have 1? Do not get caught with your pants down. Do not assume a civ will not go rogue on you.

    4 trebs is just not a way to go.
     
  11. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    I meant to mention another concept that I prefer to use and that is no one behind me. To that end, I would have worked hard to clear out Hiawatha and have the small area in the rear. It is mostly green so not bad over all, in spite of all the mountains.
     
  12. c_pablo

    c_pablo Chieftain

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    Change Sistene for Copernicus Chapel

    Navigation was for trade maps

    The few trebs is becouse i was overruning my weaks neighbours with Knights in Blitkrieg, i dont have the time or need to take them to the front.
     
  13. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    You certainly can get by at this level with no bombardment units, but the way to increase kill ratios is to use cats early and then trebs, cannon and finally artillery. A cat backing a pike makes that unit much more likely to win on defense.

    Pinging incoming and then attacking them make the attacker far more likely to win the battle. Even slightly superior units can lose when all are at full health. Very unlikely to lose if they can reduce then to 2 hp or less.

    Prior to cavs, you are probably not going to have units that are much better than the ones you face. An MDI is not vastly better than a sword for instance. Once you have enough armies to do much of the fighting then you have a large edge in units.

    Getting optional techs in trade is always good, so long as you trade something that will not be used against you.
     
  14. c_pablo

    c_pablo Chieftain

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    I know, but the Frenchs and Persians, my killed enemys just have Speaman, i conquer them with Knigths.Later i have short war with america to avoid the overrun japan, and now, i am planing a war whit iroquos, i going to need arty, but metallurgy is to 3 turns
     
  15. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    So when is that occuring for you? Is it like the early IA or later or is it in the Middle Ages? The games you posted do not look like they should be falling apart, at least not the Spanish one.

    Or is it just above Warlord you run into that issue? I would still suggest that a little tighter spacing would make your position stronger. Couple that with just a bit of evaluation on what to build where and when to build it would go a long way.
     
  16. c_pablo

    c_pablo Chieftain

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    In the aztecs, i was backward all the game, with the Mayans and Americans have the most of the wonders and resources.In byzantine game, i was foward in techs, but the aztec outnumber my forces greatly
     
  17. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    Does that mean that those game ultimately turned into problems? If that is the case, then why not try a game with just a bit closer spacing? Did any of the micro managing points I presented sound like a good idea?

    IOW do you now plan to at least periodically check towns for otimal pop use? The gov tends to do some things in opposition to your needs. One way to keep an eye on the empire is to use CAII to see what towns have grown.

    Those are canidates for eyeballing. Not growing from size 1 to 2, but 4 or better in core towns and producing towns. Again I think I have laid down some ideas about running an empire at Regent in my tutorial in my sig.

    At least it covers some concepts and traps as well as can be used as a timeline of sorts. That was my hope anyway.
     
  18. c_pablo

    c_pablo Chieftain

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    Yes,they were very good, thanks a lot
     
  19. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

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    Looked at the 760 AD Cleo game. VMXA has covered a lot of good detail, so I'm just going to reiterate the high level concepts you should be aware of:
    1) 1 worker per city, do not automate, irrigate plains and mine grasslands
    2) Put the cities a little closer together
    3) Don't waste your shields on wonders. Maybe 1 or two key wonders. With the rest build things you can use. The AI can build the wonders for you.
    4) Explore so you can meet the AI. By 760 AD you should have a good idea of the map.
    5) When you make war, get alliances. It will cut down the amount of units you have to take on.
     
  20. c_pablo

    c_pablo Chieftain

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    Cold war situation, and i am the Soviet Union with a communist gov and controlling the easter hemisphere.My enemy are the ottomans, a democracy with a bigger empire, a bigger army...
    I am in Stale Mate, and being overwhellmed by them.¿Some suggestion to win this cold war?
    My Plan is invade Germany and France islands, but i need build a bigger fleet for this.They dont controll salteper and are backward in techs...

    I continue with the game, i conquer the frenchs and expulse germany out of the continent, but they are so strong in her island, with 3 metros with riflemens and i dont have good arty, so i did the peace, but before i force a war with the ottomans(And alliance and i broke it).THey are democracy and i wanna they with high war weariness

    Portugal is so tiny to make a difference or to conquer, my only rivals live are Germans(trhee cities, but i fear a cultural victory in berlin) and ottomans(So huge democratic empire)
     

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