Heroic II comments

[timschuett]

I Read in the SVN Discussion that the %5 GA was removed from the Heroic II promotion. I agree that it seemed to grant that bonus more than 5% of the time and that was waaaay overpowered. I also understand there was some real difficulty in figuring out how to correct it.

I have reason to believe the error is with the Great General Promotions rather than Heroic II. In my recent game, I noticed that the GA triggered roughly 5% of the time (3 GA in 57 victories) when I used a rogue with Heroic II to harass my neighbor. When I moved my GG close to help escort some military captives back to my borders, the rogue earned 3 GA in 7 victories.

Might be coincidence, but was significant enough I though I should post it. But almost the same time, I got my second unit up to Heroic II, so there might be some compounding of having multiple units with the promotion. I didn't test it much beyond that observation.

I admit I like the GA aspect even though it heavily favors the human player. Makes late ancient/ early classical civic changes more responsive. I also liked the suggestion of making heroic II kill the unit. You can't live on in legend if you still live in life. that would make the promotion a real decision rather than the obvious choice once you have Combat VI and Drill IV

 

[0100010]

I've not had a chance to play with Heroic II in any games. If it is put back in though, IMO it should be not possible to have a chance at activating the GA unless the combats odds are 50% or less. (So that there is an inherent risk to the unit)

I don't know how well this can be achieved though because by the time you have an enough promotions for Heroic II there may not be allot of things to attack that will give it a 50% or less chance of winning against, unless the Heroic II unit was already badly damaged.

 

[Taxman66]

Alternate suggestion: instead of a GA, the unit yields a 'we love the king' bonus in the city that built/owns the unit?

 

[timschuett]

I like the GA effect, but it needs to be constrained somehow. I've had games with 700+ turns of GA because of Heroic II. It's a good way to ease early classical civic changes, but it shouldn't ultimately last the rest of the game.

My concern is the unit shouldn't be able to give an unlimited number of GAs, so it ought to be consumed somehow when it does. What if, upon getting Heroic II, the unit essentially became a Great person, Like a UU? You could then settle the unit as a GP (we'd need to discuss which types, but GG and Celebrity come to mind) or use them to start a GA, thus consuming the unit and increasing the number of GP you need for the next GA. Or, you can keep using them as a combat unit, but you won't pop an endless stream of compounding Golden Ages.

There is precedent for this -- at least modern. Anyone seen "Flags of our Fathers?" The guys who raised the American Flag on Mt. Suribachi were made into celebrities to help sell war bonds. I bet there's other historical examples.

I dunno if its reasonable to have a promotion make a unit change status from standard to Unique, and even if it is possible, its still not as simple as just deleting the Heroic II GA bonus. Just some thoughts

 

[LumenAngel]

GA are not as powerful in C2C as in vanilla Civ4.
After ancien era, the biggest efect is only "No more anarchy", others effect are really weak.

So I would prefer "Activation of GA delete the prom" effect.
And if it had to change the units, make it an Hero unit, with access to Heroic Promotion and ability to build National Wonders like a GG.