High End Laptop Suggestions (yes, another thread on this...)

[jeffreyac]

Hi all,

I know there were a couple of threads on this already, but they were more geared to price constrained, and that's not really what I'm looking for.

My previous laptopn, a higher-end gaming rig purchased a scant year and a half ago has died a sudden and irrevocable death this morning (yes, I know, not much lifespan. Someday when I'm not so angry I could chew concrete I'll tell you a story about why you shouldn't buy from Asus) and I'm going to need a replacement.

I'm looking for a high end gaming or desktop replacement system, with the realization that such a system could be pricey (like, 3K). Last time I did this, I spent that much on a system that is currently useful only as a large flat weight - and I fear that while I did my homework before I purchased (or so I thought), I didn't actually get any opinions from people I feel truly trustworthy (i.e. that weren't trying to sell me a computer). So I turn to you, Civfanatics, as a group of folks I know to be intelligent computer game enthusiasts.

What would you recommend for a good gaming/desktop replacement laptop? My wife has a Dell Inspiron (1720 I think), and it's OK, but a touch slower than my previous one. I've been looking at alienware, but not sure they're worth the hype (and, yes, I'm aware who makes them, and the irony of the last two sentences - I just suspect I'd like the alienware ones more...) Any others I should look at? I don't have a price range in mind, so feel free to suggest anything (ok, anything within reason - on second thought, let's top the conversation at, oh, 4k, just to keep things from getting out of hand... preferably 3.5k or lower) and I certainly don't WANT to spend lots of money - I just realize that the computers I look for run in this range. I'd cheerfully look at something less expensive if it fit the performance needs (as long as it was reliable! I don't want another non-reliable one!! I'M LOOKING AT YOU, ASUS!!!!! )

Here are the things I know I want:
-1900 x 1200 resolution (I love having the capability for high resolution, and a lot of my games look great at 19x12)
- GREAT graphics card (I play a lot of games, so I need a beefy graphics card to drive the previously mentioned resolutions))
- Decent storage and harddrive RPM for good load times
- fast processor

If you have no specific recommendations, I'm also curios about quad core processors - should I be looking for one, or should I just get a faster non-quad? I'm not particularly brand loyal when it comes to graphics cards - always been NVidia before, but willing to try others. Same with processors - always had Intel, but willing to hear other recommendations.

Any other thoughts or opinions? Even suggestions about what to avoid would be good...

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Laptops aren't really good for gaming. Since everything's so packed together, you have to take into a shop to upgrade or fix, and even then the upgradable parts are limited. I'd rather go with a desktop.

Otherwise, I don't know much about hardware, except that Maxtor hard drives tend to have a bad reputation. (and even then, some people say I'm a little obsessive about this....)

If the reason you want a lappy is because of space constraints, you can get computers with small towers. I don't know anything about those otehr than they usually require a special type of hardware. I think they're called ATX Minitowers or somethin'.

 

[jeffreyac]

Eh, the reason I've converted to laptops is portability - I used to have a desktop I carted everywhere: load it into the car for long trips, etc. At the time (this was about 4 years ago) there just weren;t any laptops out there that I felt could rival a desktop.

Now, with 17" screens and good processors/graphics cards, I think they are a viable option - in fact, I loved my last one while it worked. Being able to grab the laptop and take it to work, or the library, or trips to visit the wife's parents give me my computer gaming on the go. True, they really won't ever completely live up to the top-of-the-line desktop gaming systems, but I think they are enough that I am willing to take a slight hit in performance in order to have something I can take with me.

My master plan was to get the laptop last year, then get a killer desktop system next year but to be honest, I really enjoyed being able to play on the laptop through the wireless net all over the house (World of Warcraft in the library? Civ IV BTS while sitting on the couch? Browse the internet from the downstairs? Sure, why not!)

So, reluctantly, I've been converted to a laptop fan... Now, it's true that the one thing I notice is a lot more heat related issues - because you're right, to get that level of performance you really have to cram stuff into a small package. But, then again, I have had desktops with heat issues, so it's kind of a theme for me...

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

I didn't know people had libraries in their houses.

What exactly caused the death of your last lappy? Did the HDD die on you, or the mobo got fried, it overheated and melted, or "unknown reason"? 'Cause if you can identify it, it can give you some ideas.

 

[jeffreyac]

(sigh!)

OK, I'm going to go to my happy place and try to not yell and scream while I relate my story.

This is a big long rant - if you want to fast forward to the part where I just tell you what is currently wrong with the computer, go to the line of asterisks and skip my ranting. (Or I could tell you here - motherboard... )

October of 2007 I started looking at laptops - I had been looking at alienware, dell, and a few other gaming machines, and I saw that Best Buy had an Asus system on sale - a G2S-X1. I had never heard of the company before, but the specs were impressive - decent graphics card, fast processor, 2G memory (which, at the time, was pretty decent for laptops) - overall, comparable performance to the higher end alienware systems available, and marginally better than the Dell, at a lower price from the sale plus an online rebate. I read some reviews, and was happy to see good things about Asus systems - turns out they're aTaiwanese company, with what I thought was a decent rep in the area, trying to break into the overseas markets. I considered myself lucky to find the system, and grabbed one.

At first, very happy. Had about 9 months good performance out of it - then started to get unstable, blue screen crashes that looked a lot (to me) like hardware errors. At the time, I had recently added RAM, so I wondered if the RAM was having compatability issues. I pulled the RAM, but the instability/BSOD comntinued. Working with Best Buy and Asus customer support, it was a split decision - Asus felt it was a hardware issue (either motherboard or memory) and Best Buy thought it was a software issue (but, then again, don't they always say that? )

Here's the real frustration - Asus had said that Best Buy was one of their designated repair facilities in the US, and that they had a repair contract for Best Buy to do maintenance work. Based on this, I didn't buy one of the Best Buy warranties - I hate those things (tho, yes, in this one case it would have helped me.... ) Asus says, no problem, the computer is still under a one year warranty, have it fixed.

Best Buy says no, we don't do that. I didn't buy the Best Buy warranty, so they won't fix it. Has to be a manufacturer.

Asus says Best Buy IS a certified warranty repair vendor, and should fix it.

Best buy says "Nope! Not unless you bought our super-cool Best Buy warranty!"

I go round and round with the two, until the final determination is if I want the computer fixed I have to send it in to Asus and be without a comp for a minimum of 4 weeks, perhaps longer, to repair. In the meantime, the computer is useable, but somewhat unstable in that I still get the random blue screen crash from time to time. Four times I went through crashes bad enough that I eventually had to wipe and completely restore Vista and start over (yes, four complete installs of Vista) over about a one month period. I was not a happy camper - and the problems, while they went away for a while, always seemed to reoccur.

Then, on the 5th install, the problems slowed. I also started to try and be more conscious of heat with the laptop - use it in cooler areas, have extra fans running on it, etc - and that seemed to help the performance. I even got Civ running again on it - for a while, the system would crash and/or freeze when I tried to install... But now, everything seemed OK, and I wasn't happy (as I still had occasional crashes) but at least content, as I had a mostly-functional laptop.

I had a snap decision to make: it was October, the end of the year long manufacturers warranty, and I had an option to send it back to Asus. They said if it WAS hardware, they'd try to fix it and send it back under warranty - I'd be out the computer for 4 weeks minimum, but no money. If they couldn't find any hardware problems, they'd assume it was software, and not warranty covered. They'd ship it back, charge me shipping, I'd still be out 4 weeks of no-computer minimum, and I'd be right back where I started. Thinking about the diagnostic Best Buy had run and afraid that Asus would not be able to locate a hardware fault, I elected to let it ride. (I was still convinced it was a hardware fault, but something in the memory that only surfaced occasionally when the computer was under a load, and therefore hard to isolate.)

Fast forward through 4 months of essentially good times, with occasional crashes, but manageable if I'm careful (lots of extra civ saves, and the occasional rescue-by-autosave! ) This morning, the computer crashes, and recovers, accompanied by some strange video performance - artifacts on the screen, brief flickers, etc.. I get a message that the display driver had crashed and recovered. No problem, I think, I've seen this before... Generally I reboot to stabilize the display driver, then go ahead with whatever I was doing when the crash happened.

Only this time, the computer screen remains dark... uh oh.... Reboot again, same result. Diasnostics - oh, crap, it's either the screen (very bad on a 17" laptop) or the video card (also very bad!) I hook up first an external monitor, then a TV through an S video cable - nothing on either.

Great. So the video card (which is part of the mobo in this model) is dead. That will be an expensive fix... I call Best Buy, and they confirm my diagnosis of bad video card, say they couldn't do any additional troubleshooting and they can't replace the motherboard anyway, so they can't help - I'll have to call Asus.

Everything up to this is minor frustration - here's the part, this morning, when I get really angry.

Asus listens, then says my computer's not under warranty. I know, I say, though that's frustrating, I was just checking to see how much it would be to get it repaired. After all, it may be worth many hundreds of dollars to get my $3k computer back up and working - particulary if this was the problem all along, and it finally gave up the ghost.

Oh, problem, says Asus. See, we discontinued the G2S line, so there are no more motherboards.

"... ok, so I need a motherboard to fix it, and you don't make them anymore, so you stopped all support for it? No spare parts at all?"

Yes, says Asus. and I quote the customer service rep: "I't what we call E.O.L. End Of Life."

The best part: My next question - why did you discontinue the G2S line?

The answer - too many motherboard problems.

So, they had soooo many motherboard issues that they disconinued the line, but said nothing to me about this just 4 months prior, or (if the decision was made after that) had no plan in place to help customers who may still have issues with a product that they stopped making basically because they realized it was a lemon.


*********************************************

So, there ya go. I'm incredibly angry at Asus, and my computer needs a new motherboard (well, graphics card, but that amounts to new motherboard on this model...)

I'm angry enough now that even if they offer to fix (I have a tech right now looking into if they have another motherboard they could use) or offer a new system discounted, I don't know if 'd do it. I may just write it off as a bad investment and get a new computer. Which led me here...

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

So you had an integrated/on-board card? I often have problems with the driver on my ATI Radeon Xpress card. 'Cos Windows Update keeps overwriting the working drivers with broken ones. I used to have problems twice as much until I installed the Omega drivers.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like you can put a GPU into a lappy (make sure to read my signature before you take any of my advice, though. LOL):
http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/8/t671946-laptop-gpu/

You could probably make a bit if you sell it on eBay, people often buy broken computers there.

 

[jeffreyac]

I think you can put dedicated cards into the laptops, but this one in particular was an intergrated card (or so I found. I had thought as first it was a dedicated card - another indication that perhaps my homework wasn't as good as I thought... )

At any rate, yeah, I may be out of luck. The techs were 'looking into options' for me and assured they'd call me back, but it's been about 4 hours or so.

I'm actually browsing over at the alienware site as we speak, trying to decide just how much processor and memory I really am willing to pay for, and which of their systems is the best base system to begin customizing from... Fun, in a way, but still frustrating when i think of how much it'll cost me to get something comparable to what I had.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Integrated cards aren't the best for games.

 

[jeffreyac]

lol... yeah, I know, but again, at the time it was good performance for the cost, or so I thought - and, to be fair, when the computer was operating it was great for all my games, even ones with more demanding graphics. Ran like a dream - when it ran...

I'm fully aware that most laptop solutions aren't the 'best' for games - that'd be a killer desktop setup. I'm saying that, for the portability, I've been bitten by the laptop bug - almost as good as top of the line desktop, better than some desktop systems, and I can pack it up and take it with me in about 5 minutes...

 

[Genocidicbunny]

Okay, someone summarize whats been discussed so far. Im too tired to read all this.

My recommendation is something from a company like MSI that allows you to fully upgrade the components on your own, under warranty ( specifically the CPU, HDD and RAM. GPU would be too difficult, there would be power problems and probably heating issues. )

For the most part, GPU's and CPU's in laptops are NOT upgradeable. Unless a laptop specifically states that it has a graphics mini-pcie slot AND you find a place that sells them ( good luck with that, I cant even find them on ebay. ) The cpu's are also soldered right onto the mobo, although there are exceptions, such as some MSI notebooks as I said.

Now Im sure that you know not to look for any kind of battery life with a gaming laptop.

Otherwise, I don't know much about hardware, except that Maxtor hard drives tend to have a bad reputation. (and even then, some people say I'm a little obsessive about this....)

You are more than a little obsessive. Maxtor, just like any other HDD manufacturer can have problems. At the same time, there are currently 5 perfectly working Maxtor HDD's in my house, which adds up to 1/3rd of all the currently working HDD's.

 

[Zelig]

Laptops aren't really good for gaming. Since everything's so packed together, you have to take into a shop to upgrade or fix, and even then the upgradable parts are limited. I'd rather go with a desktop.

Otherwise, I don't know much about hardware, except that Maxtor hard drives tend to have a bad reputation. (and even then, some people say I'm a little obsessive about this....)

If the reason you want a lappy is because of space constraints, you can get computers with small towers. I don't know anything about those otehr than they usually require a special type of hardware. I think they're called ATX Minitowers or somethin'.

Seagates suck.
Western Digitals suck.
Samsungs suck.
IBMs suck.

Those all return more results than "Maxtors suck".

 

[jeffreyac]

Thanks for the input - yeah, I know about the battery from previous experience. That's why I talk of it more of a 'desktop replacement' - I never run on battery power. Once I did forget to plug in the laptop; I think I drained the battery to the point of the emergency session save/turnoff feature in about 45 minutes, tops.

So, yeah, when I say portability, I mean I can take it places, not that I don't have to plug it in once I get there...

The lack of upgrade potential bugs me a bit - that's one of the reasons I tend to overbuy on these things, in hope of providing a little longer useable life. Actually I didn't realize anyone at all made laptops that were upgradeable in the way you mention - I'll have to look into that.

Oh, and the one sentence summary - My laptop died, and I'm soliciting opinions on what good gaming laptops are out there these days... That's about it; everything else is pretty much my sad story of what happened and me and Aimee discussing the pros/cons of laptop gaming rigs.

In the words of Inspector Clouseau, "Let me bring you up to speed. We know nothing. You are now up to speed."

 

[Maniacal]

Huh,I've seen/heard of an ASUS laptop survive being dropped numerous times, surviving three longboard crashes, and still working fine. I have an ASUS motherboard (my second ASUS one) and it owrks fine, my 1sr ASUS mobo should still work fine and I am using it for a new computer (just waiting for a part).

The batteries suck in laptops, seriously, my ex's laptop has a 30 minute lifetime on the battery! She couldn't afford a very good laptop though.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Seagates suck.
Western Digitals suck.
Samsungs suck.
IBMs suck.

Those all return more results than "Maxtors suck".

Welll, remember that not all the results are like "Brand X sucks." It could be one of those spammy shopping sites that has a long list of stuff including "Brand X" and "sucks" somewhere in the list. Or "sucks" doesn't exist at all. That goes for Maxtors as well.

 

[Genocidicbunny]

Huh,I've seen/heard of an ASUS laptop survive being dropped numerous times, surviving three longboard crashes, and still working fine. I have an ASUS motherboard (my second ASUS one) and it owrks fine, my 1sr ASUS mobo should still work fine and I am using it for a new computer (just waiting for a part).

The batteries suck in laptops, seriously, my ex's laptop has a 30 minute lifetime on the battery! She couldn't afford a very good laptop though.

Batteries in laptops get worn out as time goes by. They hold less and less charge ( How many charge cycles specifically is dependent on the manufacturer)

Welll, remember that not all the results are like "Brand X sucks." It could be one of those spammy shopping sites that has a long list of stuff including "Brand X" and "sucks" somewhere in the list. Or "sucks" doesn't exist at all. That goes for Maxtors as well.

i suggest you just drop this topic. You've gotten enough flak for it already.

 

[Aramazd]

Welll, remember that not all the results are like "Brand X sucks." It could be one of those spammy shopping sites that has a long list of stuff including "Brand X" and "sucks" somewhere in the list. Or "sucks" doesn't exist at all. That goes for Maxtors as well.

I'm going to try to be calm this time. Maxtors do not suck. I went over the links you looked at and they were no good in addition to being almost 6 years old. Just drop it. I also suggest you don't start saying something else sucks as well.

 

[jeffreyac]

OK, while I appreciate the input on hard drives, let's not get too bogged down in individual systems - I'm not building my own here, but buying something from a manufacturer. Any computer company recommendations?

 

[GoodGame]

OP might also want to look at a larger, small-form factor computer if they want a portable lan gaming computer.

 

[Genocidicbunny]

OP might also want to look at a larger, small-form factor computer if they want a portable lan gaming computer.

This is also a good suggestion, especially if OP doesnt mind lugging around a monitor. But if its between two places, like say college and home, get a pair of monitors, have one at each place, then you only need the system and accessories.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Or get an LCD flat monitor. My mom's got one and it's lightweight.