historix69
Emperor
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2008
- Messages
- 1,412
Note :
- I own the German Version of Civ4Col ... please kindly ignore it if my translation of names does not hit the correct english expression ...
- To avoid "certain" responses ... I do know that Civ4Col is rather a game with historical setting then a historical simulation.
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As it is stated in Civilopedia and as can be read in wikipedia with more details (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_cane[1], http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_sugar[2]), the SUGAR CANE is a plant which originated in south (east) asia and came via Arabia to Europe (Spain) around the eigth century A.D. It was first brought to the New World by the Spanish and Portuguese. Before the "invention" (growing) of sugar-beet in 2nd half of 18th century, sugar cane was regarded as one of the most valuable trade goods in Europe.
"France found its sugarcane islands so valuable it effectively traded its portion of Canada, famously dubbed "a few acres of snow," to Britain for their return of Guadeloupe, Martinique and St. Lucia at the end of the Seven Years' War. The Dutch similarly kept Suriname, a sugar colony in South America, instead of seeking the return of the New Netherlands (New Amsterdam)." ([1])
Today Brazil (Ex-Portuguese-Colony) is the world's largest producer of sugar cane.
I do understand that from a game developer point of view it is easiest to handle sugar the same way as the other raw ressources fur, tobacco, cotton in the game ... (kind of ressource-symmetrie). However in regard to its history, sugar has the potential to be kind of a individual ressource. Here are some thoughts on sugar in history which might be used for discussion and (eventually) modding :
- Native americans should not produce sugar in their settlements since it is a new plant from the Old World which was limited to the european plantations.
- Native villages should not teach Expert Sugar Planter ... (actually in most games so far I've not seen them teach it.)
- The Expert Sugar Planter should be a Profession which can be learned or bought in Europe (or which should be available via the immigration pool).
- Eventually Spain (and Portugal) should get a historical production bonus for sugar. (e.g. Spanish convert natives work harder and gain +50% sugar production.)
- The work on a Sugar Plantation (and the tropical climate combined with malaria and other diseases) was too hard for most european workers so the Plantation Owners had to use native slaves and later slaves from africa since the native slaves died quickly. So far the native converts gain a bonus on sugar (and other ressource) production compared with the european non-expert-colonists. However for sugar the difference in productivity between colonists and "slaves" should be bigger.
- Tropical Wetlands / Swamps should have a negative modifier on productivity / food-production representing the higher death rates caused by diseases. This is already implemented in the game with the lower basic food production (2 instead of 3 food).
- I'm not sure if the historical death rate of slaves should also be included in the game. " ... replacement of Native American with African slaves also occurred because of the high death rates on sugar plantations. The British West Indies imported almost 4 million slaves, but had only 400,000 Blacks left after slavery ended in the British Empire in 1838." [2]
- "Sugarcane quickly exhausts the soil in which it grows" ([2]) ... This could be implemented by decreasing the sugar-production rate of a tile based on the harvested sugar and some soil-regeneration-rate ... After some turns of good harvest, the tile eventually would no longer be productive and the plantation would have to move to another place, eventually disbanding the colony. (This would increase Micromanagement a lot.)
- Colonization treats Sugar mostly as raw material for the Rum Distillery, not as a product for increasing mass market.
"During the eighteenth century, sugar became enormously popular. Britain, for example, consumed five times as much sugar in 1770 as in 1710. About 1750 sugar surpassed grain as "the most valuable commodity in European trade it made up a fifth of all European imports and in the last decades of the century four-fifths of the sugar came from the British and French colonies in the West Indies." The sugar market went through a series of booms. The heightened demand and production of sugar came about to a large extent due to a great change in the eating habits of many Europeans."([2])
I think the price-development for Sugar in the game should consider these facts (and also that overall population in Europe multiplied during age of colonization (16th-18th century) (even despite the 30-year-war)). Even with mass-production the market-prices for Sugar in Europe should stay profitable.
- The Caribbean Rum was invented around 1650. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum) so at the time when the game starts there were no Rum destillaries in the New World.
"...the first rum distillery in the colonies was set up in 1664 on present-day Staten Island. Boston, Massachusetts had a distillery three years later. The manufacture of rum became early Colonial New England's largest and most prosperous industry. New England became a distilling center (due to the superior technical, metalworking and cooperage (barrel making) skills and abundant lumber); ..."
Eventually the invention of Rum could be introduced as historical event in mid-game (turn 150 on normal).
Also Lumber (wood) could be added as raw material for Rum (e.g. 2 Sugar + 1 Lumber = 2 Rum).
- After the "French and Indian War" and the Pontiac Native Rebellion, the Taxation of Sugar (Molasses) in the British Colonies escalated with the "Sugar Act" (1764). The British "... did expect a portion of the expenses for colonial defense to be paid by the Americans. Estimating that the expenses of defending the continental colonies and the West Indies to be approximately £200,000 annually ..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_Act
So while in Col and Civ4Col the taxation and money-demands occur from the beginning and without reason, it seems that in history taxation for the colonies started later (after the expensive "Seven Years War" or "French and Indian War" for the British colonies) and there was a benefit for the colonies : the motherland provided regular troops to defend the colonies against natives and other european nations. This could be modded in the game, e.g. the bigger coastal cities would receive a free garrison of canons and regulars for protection. The king's troops would arrive with Royal Man'o'War and would count as REF. If the player refuses to pay taxes, they could close the harbor to delay shipments to Europe or they could confiscate stored goods as alternative payment. During WoI however, the player's troops (rebels) will have to engage these troops and have to take them out quickly to gain full control over the cities ...
...
- I own the German Version of Civ4Col ... please kindly ignore it if my translation of names does not hit the correct english expression ...
- To avoid "certain" responses ... I do know that Civ4Col is rather a game with historical setting then a historical simulation.
-------------------------------------------
As it is stated in Civilopedia and as can be read in wikipedia with more details (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_cane[1], http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_sugar[2]), the SUGAR CANE is a plant which originated in south (east) asia and came via Arabia to Europe (Spain) around the eigth century A.D. It was first brought to the New World by the Spanish and Portuguese. Before the "invention" (growing) of sugar-beet in 2nd half of 18th century, sugar cane was regarded as one of the most valuable trade goods in Europe.
"France found its sugarcane islands so valuable it effectively traded its portion of Canada, famously dubbed "a few acres of snow," to Britain for their return of Guadeloupe, Martinique and St. Lucia at the end of the Seven Years' War. The Dutch similarly kept Suriname, a sugar colony in South America, instead of seeking the return of the New Netherlands (New Amsterdam)." ([1])
Today Brazil (Ex-Portuguese-Colony) is the world's largest producer of sugar cane.
I do understand that from a game developer point of view it is easiest to handle sugar the same way as the other raw ressources fur, tobacco, cotton in the game ... (kind of ressource-symmetrie). However in regard to its history, sugar has the potential to be kind of a individual ressource. Here are some thoughts on sugar in history which might be used for discussion and (eventually) modding :
- Native americans should not produce sugar in their settlements since it is a new plant from the Old World which was limited to the european plantations.
- Native villages should not teach Expert Sugar Planter ... (actually in most games so far I've not seen them teach it.)
- The Expert Sugar Planter should be a Profession which can be learned or bought in Europe (or which should be available via the immigration pool).
- Eventually Spain (and Portugal) should get a historical production bonus for sugar. (e.g. Spanish convert natives work harder and gain +50% sugar production.)
- The work on a Sugar Plantation (and the tropical climate combined with malaria and other diseases) was too hard for most european workers so the Plantation Owners had to use native slaves and later slaves from africa since the native slaves died quickly. So far the native converts gain a bonus on sugar (and other ressource) production compared with the european non-expert-colonists. However for sugar the difference in productivity between colonists and "slaves" should be bigger.
- Tropical Wetlands / Swamps should have a negative modifier on productivity / food-production representing the higher death rates caused by diseases. This is already implemented in the game with the lower basic food production (2 instead of 3 food).
- I'm not sure if the historical death rate of slaves should also be included in the game. " ... replacement of Native American with African slaves also occurred because of the high death rates on sugar plantations. The British West Indies imported almost 4 million slaves, but had only 400,000 Blacks left after slavery ended in the British Empire in 1838." [2]
- "Sugarcane quickly exhausts the soil in which it grows" ([2]) ... This could be implemented by decreasing the sugar-production rate of a tile based on the harvested sugar and some soil-regeneration-rate ... After some turns of good harvest, the tile eventually would no longer be productive and the plantation would have to move to another place, eventually disbanding the colony. (This would increase Micromanagement a lot.)
- Colonization treats Sugar mostly as raw material for the Rum Distillery, not as a product for increasing mass market.
"During the eighteenth century, sugar became enormously popular. Britain, for example, consumed five times as much sugar in 1770 as in 1710. About 1750 sugar surpassed grain as "the most valuable commodity in European trade it made up a fifth of all European imports and in the last decades of the century four-fifths of the sugar came from the British and French colonies in the West Indies." The sugar market went through a series of booms. The heightened demand and production of sugar came about to a large extent due to a great change in the eating habits of many Europeans."([2])
I think the price-development for Sugar in the game should consider these facts (and also that overall population in Europe multiplied during age of colonization (16th-18th century) (even despite the 30-year-war)). Even with mass-production the market-prices for Sugar in Europe should stay profitable.
- The Caribbean Rum was invented around 1650. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum) so at the time when the game starts there were no Rum destillaries in the New World.
"...the first rum distillery in the colonies was set up in 1664 on present-day Staten Island. Boston, Massachusetts had a distillery three years later. The manufacture of rum became early Colonial New England's largest and most prosperous industry. New England became a distilling center (due to the superior technical, metalworking and cooperage (barrel making) skills and abundant lumber); ..."
Eventually the invention of Rum could be introduced as historical event in mid-game (turn 150 on normal).
Also Lumber (wood) could be added as raw material for Rum (e.g. 2 Sugar + 1 Lumber = 2 Rum).
- After the "French and Indian War" and the Pontiac Native Rebellion, the Taxation of Sugar (Molasses) in the British Colonies escalated with the "Sugar Act" (1764). The British "... did expect a portion of the expenses for colonial defense to be paid by the Americans. Estimating that the expenses of defending the continental colonies and the West Indies to be approximately £200,000 annually ..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_Act
So while in Col and Civ4Col the taxation and money-demands occur from the beginning and without reason, it seems that in history taxation for the colonies started later (after the expensive "Seven Years War" or "French and Indian War" for the British colonies) and there was a benefit for the colonies : the motherland provided regular troops to defend the colonies against natives and other european nations. This could be modded in the game, e.g. the bigger coastal cities would receive a free garrison of canons and regulars for protection. The king's troops would arrive with Royal Man'o'War and would count as REF. If the player refuses to pay taxes, they could close the harbor to delay shipments to Europe or they could confiscate stored goods as alternative payment. During WoI however, the player's troops (rebels) will have to engage these troops and have to take them out quickly to gain full control over the cities ...
...
