HNDY05a AWS Tiny Mayan

[handy900]

Always War Sid C3C 1.22 As the Mayan Fightin' Farmers [ Concurrent with HNDY05b, an AWS game as the Slammin' Sumerians. ]

Let loose the dudes of war.

Another chapter in a series of Always War tiny continent maps by the Grumpy Old Men of War Always War Always Did you mean Always War? Err, no, ugh, I meant to do it that way. GOMOWA
HNDY04-AWD|HNDY03-AWDG|HNDY02-AWE


C3C 1.22 Patch
Level: Sid
Variant: Always War
Civilization: Mayans
Continents: 70% Water
Size: Tiny
Age: 5 Billion
Temperature: Temperate
Climate: Normal
Barbarians: Sedentary (We can use the cash)
Rivals: 3 Randomly Selected
AI Aggression: Normal
Victory Condition: All are enabled. We could lose to a UN vote [if we get that far ] We’ll take a win any way we can get it, but conquest or domination are preferred.
Culturally linked starts: Off
Respawn: Off
Preserve Random Seed: On
Cultural Conversion: On
Patch: 1.22 C3C

Roster
Handy
T_McC
Greebley [Out 7/24 to 8/7]
Barbslinger
Yom [Out until ??]

Lucky candle to light the way.


Always War Boilerplate as we play it
You may only trade when you first meet a civilization, and must declare war on the same turn after trading is complete. If you see a new AI unit, you must make contact & declare war that turn. Absolutely no turn based trade (such as GPT) allowed. If you see a new face on F4, you are obligated to declare war that turn (after trading). Players must declare war if they are exploring and see AI units, but are not required to actually attack the units they come in contact with. No peace treaties, ever. You may check F4 as often as you like to spy on the AI's tech, resources, luxuries & city count. We are not allowed to build embassies .

Discuss any move that seems exploitive before doing it with the team. Although there are not too many exploits available in AW, we’ll follow the forbidden blatant exploits banned by GOTM and RBCiv such as no "Free Wealth". Other normal game exploits such as "Baiting the AI" with an empty city to create a kill zone are an AW tradition and are allowed. Also, you ARE allowed to initially keep a city, move a settler to the same spot as the city, and then abandon and immediately resettle. This is considered an exploit in RBCiv rules, but is okay in our AW games. In addition if you need to build a city one square deeper into enemy territory just to move borders to steal a resource, go for it. We may keep or raze cities, and can keep slaves. You may whip at will, including captured cities or cities where all citizens are unhappy.

SG Stuff
You have 24 hours for an "I got it" and 72 to play. If you need a one day extension, then mention this before the 72 hours are up. Players can work out skips between themselves, just post a message to the thread. If you can't play within 72 total, switch places or ask for a skip. We will play 10 turns at first, and possibly fewer later (5) if the turns begin to take too long.

 

[handy900]

Roster
Handy
T_McC <- UP
Greebley [Out 7/24 to 8/7]
Barbslinger
Yom [Out until ??]

The world @ 2550 BC. Turn log for the first 30 turns is in the planning thread.

 

[T_McC]

I don't have it.

Amended roster:

Barbslinger - Up!
Yom
T_McC
Greebley [skip until 8/7]
Handy [skip until 8/1, at least]

This way the same person isn't up in both HNDY games at once. And I want Yom to pick up SGOTM3 first. (I think it's just he and I right now )

 

[barbslinger]

Alrighty then. Got it!

 

[barbslinger]

Preturn – Adjust capital for growth and settler in 3 allowing a taxman to up our research to BW in 15.
IT – Forest clears to reveal a BG
[1] 2510 – Mining BG in 2 and then will road to dyes.
[2] 2470 – Nada
[3] 2430 – Mine completes and road is down in Copan. Settler and a warrior head for dyes. Adjust pop and sliders to 11g –1gpt, BW in 12. Chichen set to worker, hoping we don’t get a visitor.
[4] 2390 – Settler moving
[5] 2350 – Decide to settle on dye with coastal access. Warrior jumps on hill to have a look. Chichen-Worker>Settler.
[6] 2310 – Copan-Rax>Warrior. Paleneque settled. Roading there. Copan goes to settler.
[7] 2270 – Not much. Settler in 2.
[8] 2230 – Playing with pop trying to keep from being broke.
[9] 2190 – Move settler SE to settle there and see a border across a short sea.
[10] 2150 – Head SE still and we have another cow. Road completes and BW after adjustment is due in 4 at +1gpt. Raoding and chopping.

I think I would settle where he stands and continue settler production for both cash and future military. According to F10 it looks like the Greeks across the way and we’ll see him soon after MM. Do we want to get war going now to hold up his research?

 

[T_McC]

I'll take this one, and let Yom come up after me.

Should at least start tonight.

 

[T_McC]

HNDY05a - Make Mine Mayan!

2150 BC (0)
The 4-turn settler factory is up and running. May soon be turned into a 2-turn worker factory, though.

Swap a couple of tiles around and make a buck.

This is what Sid means: We still haven't researched a tech.

IT - Just hope Greece is not on our island.

2110 BC (1)
Tikal founded on spot. I hate to waste our Ag trait by not founding next to the lake, but we need the cow. Starts on Warrior.

Lux to 20% for Chichen.

I say this almost every game, but I still can't see how people can play with "Show Food and Shields ..." turned on. I find it much easier to distinguish between BG and non-BG with it off.

IT - The Pyramids and the Oracle are both completed. Alex built the big pointy thing.

2070 BC (2)
Chop completes at Palenque.

Turn sliders down to net BW next turn.

IT - BW comes in, and I have to figure we get visited by Alex soon. So I head for WC and our mighty Javelins.

2030 BC (3)
Chichen builds Settler, set for a 1-turn Warrior.

IT - Nothing.

1990 BC (4)
Chichen set for a 3-turn settler. Copan builds settler. This one goes to complete our 1st ring. Initial settler in position to found next turn.

IT - Spot another set of boundaries across the bay: the Inca!

1950 BC (5)
Yaxchilan founded, starts on Worker.

Lux tax to 20% for Chichen. Another settler is in place to found next turn.

1910 BC (6)
Tikal builds Warrior, goes to Worker.

Bonampak founded. City pops a hut to give us a free Warrior. City starts a Warrior.

Still don't know anyone else.

IT - Nothing.

1870 BC (7)
Chichen builds settler, who sets out for a gold hill. City stays on Settler.

1830 BC (8)
Greek borders expand, no contact.

1790 BC (9)
Copan build Warrior, starts another. Tikal swapped to Settler, as we'll get irrigation to that cow soon.

1750 BC (10)
You want to talk about vetoable: Lagartero founded and starts on Forbidden Palace. Seriously worth thinking about, we may get this built in the BC years without a leader. Will need a lot of worker attention. More discussion in next post with a picture.

 

[T_McC]

Here you see our almost perfect, yet still complete ring around our capital. I think there are 6-7 more city sites on this island, we may have the whole thing filled in the next 25 turns. Pink dots are a couple of suggested sites. There is a spot N of the W pink dot that fits with this pattern and claims the Ivory. Just not enough room to fit it in the picture. I would send the next two settlers from Chichen towards that Ivory and claim both spots in rapid succession.

After we build enough settlers to fill the island I feel we should turn Chichen into a 2-turn worker farm. The nice thing is that the city can then cede some or the mined BG to our other 1st ring cites to help them build military.

I wouldn't blink an eye until we had >30 workers given this terrain. Our advantage is to get as many of the land tiles in use before we have to fight an aggressive war.

Our workers are currently in the south roading/irrigating that cow. Our priority after that may be to connect our FP city to the capital (and thus lowering corruption) and getting the Ivory on-line.

 

[T_McC]

Yom is up in this one.

Handy may be back on Sunday.

 

[Yom]

I know I'm up. I'm just busy, that's all. I'm hopefully going to get this and B tonight.

 

[Yom]

Btw, Lagartero is on an FP. It was founded this turn, so it was most likely determined by the Governor. Do we want to keep it on the FP? With Ivory nearby, we can easily snag Zeus (only 8 turns for Chichen if we let it grow and use choice tiles). Do we want to complete it in Chichen or another city so that Chichen can pump workers after our island is settled. Finally, we seem to have ignored the Literature path altogether. We can still go for it, and with a powerhouse like Chichen, I would. What does the team think? It'll be hard to keep up in Tech on Sid without TGL.

BTW, Chichen can do 1 warrior + 1 settler every 4 turns.

 

[T_McC]

No need to rush. These aren't turns we want to play in a hurry. Pretty much every turn, every city MM.

 

[T_McC]

Btw, Lagartero is on an FP. It was founded this turn, so it was most likely determined by the Governor. Do we want to keep it on the FP?

Nope, I picked that. It's the best spot on our island for the FP and we may be able to finish it in the BC years. We should have an exclusive on the SoZ, which conveniently enough is 200 shields like the FP. Should we pop a leader before the FP completes we can swap to Zeus and rush the FP on the turn after it completes. I don't want to rely on a leader to build an FP this game, so I feel the best way to handle the situation is to pick a city and just do it from the start.

I would not use Chichen for a wonder, it's too valuable for producing workers and settlers. We have a screaming need for workers given the amount of jungle we have on our continent. I feel the best way to keep up with the Sid AI's is to improve all of our tiles ASAP. We should be able to claim our entire continent in about 20-25 turns (I think you'll build 4 settlers on your turn, and there are only 6-7 city spots left.)

With Ivory nearby, we can easily snag Zeus (only 8 turns for Chichen if we let it grow and use choice tiles).

That ain't true. But we could do in 16 turns (13 spt?) or 17 turns (12 spt). Since we have an exclusive on the wonder, I really don't want to tie our capital up building it. We may be able to start in another of our 1st ring cities once we get them all stood up well. Chichen on workers, 3-4 cities on military, 1 city on a Wonder.

Finally, we seem to have ignored the Literature path altogether. We can still go for it, and with a powerhouse like Chichen, I would. What does the team think? It'll be hard to keep up in Tech on Sid without TGL.

Big gamble to build in Chichen. I wouldn't object to picking another city and dedicating it to building the Great Library (or just some wonder). Less of a gamble, but still a gamble. We're basically OCC'ing here for a few more turns. And it may take quite a while to research to Lit (we don't even know Alphabet!). We can always capture the Great Library from someone else.

BTW, Chichen can do 1 warrior + 1 settler every 4 turns.

You have to watch who works what tiles. While the other cities are size 1, we can do 10 spt in Chichen. After the other cities grow it may be more profitable to let them use a mined BG or 2. (We still have a couple of tiles to improve around Chichen). If we decide to use Chichen as a worker pump, it may be able to surrender all of the BG's it can share with other cities.

 

[Yom]

My mistake on the 8 turns, I don't know what I was thinking (except that I calculated the time to build a 100-shield wonder). I'll probably dedicate a city to a TGL prebuild, though. It's too good to pass up, IMHO.

 

[T_McC]

Having a Wonder-building city is fine. Since we'll have an expensive Palace we should be able to get something out of it, even if we don't get The Library.

Don't know which city is the best candidate. The one in the jungle NE of Chichen has had a forest chop credited to it, so it has to finish its Barracks before it can be switched to the Palace.

 

[handy900]

Just flew back from San Francisco, and boy are my arms tired.

I can pick it up after Yom.

 

[Yom]

Turn 0 - It looks like we'll be out of places to settle soon.
Lagartero is on the FP. Is this intential or determined by the
Governor?

IBT - Chichen Itza:Settler->warrior
Bonampak:warrior->Barracks

Turn 1 - I switch Yaxchilan to the Colossus (Literature prebuild).
I'm surprised that we don't automatically have contact with Greece
yet.

IBT - Chichen:warrior->Settler.
Corinth completes the colossus.

Turn 2 - Yaxchilan switched to granary.

IBT - We learn warrior code (it was 2 turns away, so we contacted
greece). Alphabet will come in 12 turns at 0 gpt. I guess moving
the workers to a tile adjacent to his borders caused contact.

Turn 3 - I dial up Alexander. He has Alphabet, The Wheel,
CB, and IW over us. We have no techs over him and little money,
so war is declared immediately (our research will be cheaper
though).
Silly me. We already had Masonry, so I swap Yaxchilan on the
palace. Actually, Tikal might be a better place to build TGL.
Yaxchilan is switched back to a worker. Copan is switched from a
worker to a Jav.

Turn 4 - Not Much. There's land south of the tip of our island (not
conntected though).

IBT - Chichen:Settler->Warrior.
Yaxchilan:Worker->Barracks.

Turn 5 - Not much.

IBT - Crap, that's not good. Greece already has map making and a
greek Galley shows up near Tikal.
Chichen:warrior->Jav (The Greeks have IW, and I don't want to
face swords with warriors).

Turn 6 - Nothing, bracing for a Greek Landing.

IBT - The Galley heads to the south but another Galley shows up
East of Yaxchilan.

Turn 7 - Quirigua founded.

IBT - The Greek Galley leaves.

Turn 8 - Nothing.

IBT - Chichen:Jav->Settler
The Greeks are building MoM and The Hanging Gardens!!!

Turn 9 - Calakmul founded.

Turn 10 - We're in OK shape, but Greece has a huge tech
advantage. Tikal will hopefully bring in TGL and prove our
savior. I would mine as many plains in that area as possible (even
mine over one of my irrigated ones) to make sure it has good
production and join in some workers. Since Chichen Itza will be
producing a lot of workers soon (which only needs 5spt), we can
irrigate one of its cows and give the mined one to Tikal to get
more spt. Actually, the 2 Cows and 4 mined plains is the ideal
set-up for Tikal, producing 13 spt before corruption. I would
work toward this immediately and would pop out 2 settlers from
Chichen to fill up our lands.

We only have 2 spots left to settle on our island. One is 2 S 1 SE
of Tikal and the other is 1 N 2 NE of Quirigua. We have not contacted
the Inca (the pink civilization), and I would refrain from doing so
until we have a decent army to defend against landings. 1 Jav
Thrower and some warriors isn't going to cut it.
As for Zeus, We can (hopefully) get it any time we want in any
city we choose. We can go for a quick build in Chichen or use
Bonampak, Copan or Yaxchilan to build it. Either way, I would
research Math until we have researched Literature. I would
research Writing at a rate faster than 10% (our prebuild won't last
that long) since Tikal is an average producer and The Greeks
already have writing. Literature, OTOH, should be delayed until
the turns before our pre-build runs out so that our discovery
doesn't help the Greeks/Incans research it faster.

Oh yeah, Alphabet is due in 4 with 8 gold at -1 gpt.

 

[handy900]

Hey Yom, the save 1500bc save you posted does not have us at war with Greece. Did you declare?

I can declare on my first turn if you forgot, but though I'd ask first before I played.

 

[Yom]

I'm pretty sure I declared... Though I did reload to fix a mis-click. Maybe that's why we're not at war. Go ahead and declare for me.

 

[handy900]

Fight Farmers Fight. Mooooo
Wow, that's inspiring.

Reader’s Digest Version:
Greece invaded with 8 units on two fronts. They attacked and pillaged.
We lost a few improved tiles, but lost no cities and no units.
We have a javelin army to play with.
Only 2 Greek intruders left.
Still no sign of the Inca or Byzantines.

Interesting map. Lots of cows, appropriate for the Mooyans.

Pre Turn
F4 peek shows we only know Alex.

Err, ugh, we have not declared on Alexander yet, so I declare war on Greece.

I decided to go ahead & play after declaring war. If you guys feel this “taints” the AW, I’ll play it again from a new save. I think Yom meant to declare war but forgot.
We are very light on defense (no walls & only warrior for garrison) up in the north. The FP build with only a warrior conscript as a guard is asking for trouble. Glib is a distant dream at this point. Since there are 2 AI borders in view we’ll see a lot of landings in the near future. We Need Acav for protection, so I expect we’ll switch Tikal to SoZ after we hook up the ivory. I plan to go for math next for cats & Acav.
Leader miracle sure would be nice.

I agree Tikal does need 2 irrigated cows & 4 mined plains. We are really light on workers. At least we got several cities down before the GA. We should have build spears instead of javelins to postpone the GA. Oh well…

I wish Tikal had walls.

IBT
Bonampak – walls – barracks (I switched the build) before I hit enter.

Turn 1 1475
Worker stuff.

IBT
Greece founds a city - Ephesus - in the south on our continent.
Chichen – settler – spear (we’ll need another city after we raze the Greek city in the south. Until then we 2 turn spears. Greece will land somewhere soon.
Palenque – barracks – spear

Turn 2 1450
Chichen has 10spt for 2 turn spears. We need a bunch. We also need workers, but that will have to wait. Using single warriors to guard cities is begging for trouble. All the other cities will take too long to build spears. Since there is probably a hoplite in that southern Greek city, we’ll need cat support to raze it. We need cats in the worst way.
Can dial down research. Alpha in 2 @ 0gpt

IBT
Copan – javelin – spear
Greece builds Temple of Artemis.

Turn 3 1425
Not much.
Alpha in 1 but cannot adjust slider.

IBT
Alpha – Math due in 20 losing 1 GPT with 5 in the bank. When we have to turn it down, it will move to due in 46. Unless a javelin win on defense starts the GA. We really need cats and Acav to help us on defense. If we don’t survive, we can’t win. Fortunately the pink border Inca have not shown up on F4 yet.
Chichen – spear – worker. I’m concerned about the impending Greek invasion. Chichen is up to 11 spt, and can pop a worker in 1 turn, then do another 2 turn spear.

Turn 4 1400
Greece has a huge culture lead.
The spear is going to the FP build (currently a conscript warrior).
Gosh we need roads in the north.

IBT
Chichen – worker – spear

Turn 5 1375
Sliders @ 70/10 with math due in 16 @ +1gpt.
Two workers are sent to build roads towards the ivory.
Irrigation of the cows for Tikal will have to wait a while. The Tikal pre-build may have to go to SoZ.
MM Chichen to grow in 2 and produce a worker in 2.
I stuck a warrior on the cow to induce a Greek attack. It worked & we avoided the GA for at least a couple of turns.
Greece is probably building galleys like mad to load with hoplites and archers.
I’d like to wait to begin the GA until more tiles are improved. Otherwise it would take forever to research for the Glib.
F4 still no sign of the Inca

IBT
Cuzco finishes MoM
Greece starts Great Wall
Greece starts Hanging Gardens
A Greek archer moves out of the southern city. I’ll replace the javelin in Tikal with a spear to avoid the GA.

Turn 6 1350
Sliders have to go to 70/20 to keep Chichen happy. Math 15 turns +1gpt.
Still only Greece on F4.
Switch to spear in Copan. I want more spears to avoid starting the GA (and they are cheaper and we have woefully inadequate defenses).
Did I mention I wished Tikal had walls?

IBT
Chichen – spear – spear
Greeks are building Hanging Gardens
Greeks land 2 hoplites, warrior and Archer N of Copan.
Archer moves out of Ephesus in the South.

Turn 7 1325 BC
Copan is switched to walls. We are going to get captured, pillaged or both.
Change some builds to walls.
Copan has a spear & warrior garrison.

IBT
Bonampak – barracks - walls
Warrior attacks Copan & dies to a spear.
Greece pillages road & mine @ Copan.
Greece lands another archer.
Greece now has near 1 hoplite and 2 archers N of Copan.
The second Hoplite has moved next to Chichen & will likely pillage like a madman.
In the south, the Southern Greek city has contributed a hoplite to the archer mix.
Total units in the Mayan lands are now 2 hoplites & 2 archers in north. One of each in the South.

Turn 8 1300 BC
The people admire our achievements, we’ll see ho they feel next turn.
Hey - T_McC - I switch your FP pre-build a barracks - we have 18 in the box so you can switch it back if you like. I did it based on a rumor an FP pre-build tends to attract special AI attention?? Any truth to this rumor?
Antway, no loss of shileds, and we have 20 turns to switch back with no loss if you like.
The settler arrives and next turn will found by the ivory.

IBT
We begin our Golden Age with a Javelin victory versus an archer on Defense
The javelin promoted to elite.
Chichen – spear – spear
Yax – walls – barracks
Copan – spear – spear
Hoplite pillages mine W of Chichen.

Turn 9 1275 bc
I don’t believe it. The newly minted elite javelin attacks an archer and gets a leader on the very first elite victory. That javelin killed 2 archers AND popped a leader!
This in an interesting little problem to chew on. Do we go for a javelin army to rid our lands of the Greeks - and get several slaves? Do we build an FP – in a city with no improved tiles?
Decide to build a javelin Army, so I switch Chichen to get 16 spt to build a quick javelin.
I’m hoping a javelin army can hold off the Greeks for a while and get us some slaves.
F4 still shows no sign of the Inca.

IBT
Spear at Copan beats archer on Defense. No more Greek archers.
The cow S of Tikal is pillaged by the Greek hoplite.

Turn 10 1250bc
Load second javelin in the army and kill hoplite, but no slave.
Now only 2 hoplites left.


Notes:
Sorry about the GA, it couldn’t be helped.
We are down to only 2 remaining hoplites in our lands.
I think we will need the army to deal with the next batch.
Math in 6 @ +1gpt. Math in 5 -1gpt is also an option if you switch Chichen's taxdude to scientist.
We need cats & SoZ big time since we’ll soon be at war with 3 AI.
Because the Greeks pillaged, Chichen only got 12 shields in the box, so I MM’d it to 10spt for this build cycle. I gave shields to other cities. Next cycle you MM to pull 16 (2 turn javelins) if you want. I think the other cities need the shields more.
I think it will take you 2 turns, but you can stop the pillaging with the army.
Map Making (galleys) is a long way off. I think we should load a third javelin in our army. We can send an Acav army to the other lands when we pop another leader.
Expect an AI dogpile soon. Greece may get allies to join against us now that we have killed several of their units.
I’m surprised the Inca have not sent a boat over yet.
We really need more workers. Chichen can kick them out in 1 turn, after the third jav is built. Chichen can also do 2 turn spears @ 10spt.
Palenque needs walls after the spear is built.
Please be careful with the army.

Somebody double check my MMing

Picture below.