HOF V3 - "From Here to Eternity"

great game all! Has and I have talked about teaming up and taking the Axis if anyone is interested?? Although I think Eric should comment about any changes he'd like before we "kick Off"??

Sully
 
I need a break for a while...

Rick: do you think the Axis position can be won in multi-player? I think it needs some changes (or I completely fail to understand this kind of game... :crazyeye:)
 
I think it´s hard..., i´d say your strategy was very good in the first turns, but after that you concentrated a lot on taking Moscow and Leningrad maybr IMHO, why didn´t you bypassed them... also...why didn´t u use radar....soviets lack of it in the first 6/7 turns, that´s the german window to win the eastern front i think...

- the real problem is England in the backdoor, i´d say that to balance the game, germans need to have access to mobile flak and self propelled artillery in Mobile Warfare 2 to allow the creation of the panzer divisions sooner, but then again they start with mobile warfare and can go straight to mobile warfare 3...

Another issue is the german luftwaffe, i think they had a lot more at the time of the japanese invasion of pearl harbor, and they seem to lack enought Stukas and Paratroopers, which they used a lot in 1941....

Also the mech inf unit, it should be able to carry one infantry division IMHO, it would provide a more panzer division type of warfare to the scenario....

Other thoughts:

-Soviets lack antitank guns, some sort of this type of unit should be created;
-Later antitank panzerfaust infantrys could be added;
-Light tanks/Cavalry should be able to perform recon missions with an operational range of 2 tiles;
-germans should start with a lot of slave workers, since they captured souzands of them on all of occupied europe;
 
Certainly some good ideas. As Minor Axis (and I'm sure Elephantium can attest to this as well), I found that there weren't enough things to build, and researching took way too long. (I researched one tech all game.)

And I think the resources system should be scrapped. Sure you can argue that oil was the driving cause of the German invasion of the Caucasus, but when one source supplies the whole empire, the system doesn't work too well. From turn one I was giving Japan oil and Germany aluminum, but I soon lost control of every resource in the game from British and American bombing, and the Soviet invasion of the Balkans. This was very frustrating near the end when I could only build Infantry Divisions.
 
I was actually okay with the number of things I could build. Of course, most of my cities stayed connected to resources for the entire game. South America was never in any danger, of course, but if muzbang had bombed out the Chinese-Burma road, the situation in China would have been much harder for me.

Actually, in anticipation of such a bombing, I sent my workers to connect a second route to Burma. It kept them busy for 80% of the game -- in hindsight, I would have been better off building some rails! :lol:

Speaking of roads, I had a hard time with the Sian-Lanchow area. They got cut off really quickly, and then they fell in a surprise attack as soon as I started shifting units away from them. I had expected to SEE Japan's units in the area before the cities fell!
 
I only was able to go in China in the begining (and with all my armies et my artillery)

I projected to conquer all china, but it was impossible... with Russia attacking in the north...

and CHina has some good defensive units.


Elephantium said:
Well played, everyone. muz, you did a great job of pushing into China - you really kept me on my toes! :salute:
Click to expand...


For Sian, i attacked the city with a light tank (4 moves) when i spoted that there was no unit inside... i have placed cavalry and some inf.div too, so as to not being spoted... and in order to defend the city after.



I played the game making money.
I only reach 1 technology...
But that permited me to buy units and units. without all that money, Japan would have fall into russian hands i think.

At end of game, i was 10% research, -10 gold per turn.
Too hard to tech with japan.


One error i've done in pearl, is to send my ships south when i spoted the US stack... i feared that they attack south in the philipines... and i let Pearl without boats....
So US can bombard my units...
with all my ships in the city, USA would have bombarder the ships, and units would have been "safe" to defend against marines.


But, just as Lanzelot, i think axis is not able to win this game.

Russia is really powerfull...
And when i played the USA, i find it also very strong
 
RickFGS said:
I think it´s hard..., i´d say your strategy was very good in the first turns, but after that you concentrated a lot on taking Moscow and Leningrad maybr IMHO, why didn´t you bypassed them... also...why didn´t u use radar....soviets lack of it in the first 6/7 turns, that´s the german window to win the eastern front i think...

- the real problem is England in the backdoor, i´d say that to balance the game, germans need to have access to mobile flak and self propelled artillery in Mobile Warfare 2 to allow the creation of the panzer divisions sooner, but then again they start with mobile warfare and can go straight to mobile warfare 3...

Another issue is the german luftwaffe, i think they had a lot more at the time of the japanese invasion of pearl harbor, and they seem to lack enought Stukas and Paratroopers, which they used a lot in 1941....
Click to expand...

I never intended to take Moscow and Leningrad... it was only a deflection. :) I wanted to have Moscow heavily defended, then cut it of the road network while using my own rail for a swift surprise-regroup towards Stalingrad, in order to advance Stalingrad -> Russian capital.
However that plan failed because of two problems:
  • The Russian airforce is way overpowered. It always destroyed my road connection to the front (not to speak of even a rail connection...). At the same time, as you already said, the German luftwaffe is too small and I never managed to disrupt the Russian road network in the same way.
  • The Russian Rifles at defense 16 are way too strong. You need at least Panther Armies to attack them, and even then there is quite a casualty rate. And even if the Panthers attack successfully, they can't retreat back into safety because of the roads always being destroyed by Russian bombers (see previous point). So they remain vulnerable in the open and get picked up in the counter attack. I realized this quite soon, and considered using them only defensively, letting the Russian units advance and killing them inside my own territory, where my Panthers remained mobile. But I knew from the previous game, that this strategy would not be successful, because I need to finish Russia early, before GB + US are ready to mount their D-Day. So my only chance was to keep attacking and hope to be able to take out 4-5 productive core cities very early. But this was not possible and only led to high losses. :(

Another problem of the small German Luftwaffe: I knew from the previous game that after a few turns the British bombers start destroying the entire western half of my territory... So I used 2-3 towns right from the start to produce fighters. The production of these towns was dearly missing for building the necessary units to fend off the Russian steam-roller. And in the end the Focke-Wulfs were still not enough to prevent the complete destruction of France...
I guess that bomber-producing British wonder is too over-powered. At least the devastating bombardment starts too early in this game: as you can see, the western half of my territory is already completely destroyed at the beginning of 1943. In reality allied bombardments started to do serious damage to the German industry production only in 1944. (German production of planes and tanks as well as coal and steel output peaked in early 1944.)
 
I agree that the Germans are considerably underpowered over the long haul.

US strategy for the ETO was build planes, build more planes, then build even more planes. The ground forces were originally planned to fight their way through France, but the German counter ended that. Big picture though was it hardly mattered, because the US bombers based in Africa were able to do a Falaise on the Wehrmacht which insured the gates to Berlin would be wide open in time. It was clear that Germany couldn't both build enough fighters and supply the Eastern Front with the limited resources available.

The worker builds in the continental US amounted to 1, and he was in Alaska late in the game. Science only got turned off the last turn once B-29s were available to build.

In the Pacific it was a stuggle for some time, but in the end I only needed one break and as Muz said that was when he pulled the fleet from Pearl. The fast battleships and carriers proved to be the bait in the SW Pacific while the slow moving battleships quietly remained behind at Los Angeles. Once the IJN moved out, and more battleships came on line things completely turned around beginning with the recapture of Pearl. Interestingly I started building carriers, then realized they were easy meat for the Japanese subs, so I went over to building battleships that could handle the subs. By game end, the Atlantic battleships had all been transferred to the Pacific and would have been in the front lines so to speak in another couple months. Effectively naval aviation took a back seat to the big guns of the battleships.
 
Bowsling said:
Certainly some good ideas. As Minor Axis (and I'm sure Elephantium can attest to this as well), I found that there weren't enough things to build, and researching took way too long. (I researched one tech all game.)

And I think the resources system should be scrapped. Sure you can argue that oil was the driving cause of the German invasion of the Caucasus, but when one source supplies the whole empire, the system doesn't work too well. From turn one I was giving Japan oil and Germany aluminum, but I soon lost control of every resource in the game from British and American bombing, and the Soviet invasion of the Balkans. This was very frustrating near the end when I could only build Infantry Divisions.
Click to expand...

And a true observation and outcome of what the USAAF was attempting to prove with daylight precision strategic bombing and English nighttime bombing. And as to the Minor Axis research issue..once again I think Eric has got that right as Italy really didn't produce nor developed the capacity to produce any techs in reality. Once could also argue that the Russians should never be able to develop radar or at least can but at an incredibly high price. What they can and did produce was large formations of infantry and probably the finest all around tank in the T-34 and its variants. Also they should be able to produce large numbers of cheap labor units as should Germany as noted above.

I Hope you guys liked my new readable color!!!

So Eric..any planned changes based upon the comments we have provided you?

Sully

Also note that I have relocated to the the burning inferno which is San Antonio, Texas. It is hot...dam hot...:devil:
 
Lanzelot said:
I never intended to take Moscow and Leningrad... it was only a deflection. :) I wanted to have Moscow heavily defended, then cut it of the road network while using my own rail for a swift surprise-regroup towards Stalingrad, in order to advance Stalingrad -> Russian capital.
However that plan failed because of two problems:
  • The Russian airforce is way overpowered. It always destroyed my road connection to the front (not to speak of even a rail connection...). At the same time, as you already said, the German luftwaffe is too small and I never managed to disrupt the Russian road network in the same way.
  • The Russian Rifles at defense 16 are way too strong. You need at least Panther Armies to attack them, and even then there is quite a casualty rate. And even if the Panthers attack successfully, they can't retreat back into safety because of the roads always being destroyed by Russian bombers (see previous point). So they remain vulnerable in the open and get picked up in the counter attack. I realized this quite soon, and considered using them only defensively, letting the Russian units advance and killing them inside my own territory, where my Panthers remained mobile. But I knew from the previous game, that this strategy would not be successful, because I need to finish Russia early, before GB + US are ready to mount their D-Day. So my only chance was to keep attacking and hope to be able to take out 4-5 productive core cities very early. But this was not possible and only led to high losses. :(

Another problem of the small German Luftwaffe: I knew from the previous game that after a few turns the British bombers start destroying the entire western half of my territory... So I used 2-3 towns right from the start to produce fighters. The production of these towns was dearly missing for building the necessary units to fend off the Russian steam-roller. And in the end the Focke-Wulfs were still not enough to prevent the complete destruction of France...
I guess that bomber-producing British wonder is too over-powered. At least the devastating bombardment starts too early in this game: as you can see, the western half of my territory is already completely destroyed at the beginning of 1943. In reality allied bombardments started to do serious damage to the German industry production only in 1944. (German production of planes and tanks as well as coal and steel output peaked in early 1944.)
Click to expand...

Well not exactly Lanz..the Avro Plant auto produces a Lancaster every 3 turns. The first Lancaster was operational in the first quarter of 1942 in small numbers. I couldn't even build probably the best English unit! So rather than build ground troops..I focused on generic bombers. Mostly because the US did not want to base the "8th AF" in England. So I had no choice really than to build bombers for strategic missions. And frankly I thought the English starting numbers of Fighter units were frightfully few given how they had built up into late 1940 then in 1941. So I had to build those up right from the git go at the expense of ground units.
 
And I do agree about the Russian AF. They should be VERY Expensive to build. And few and far in between along with bombers. Their forte was ground pounders and I think that they probably are represented fairly well!
 
@Lanz: Radar Tower -> This will kill the russian 16 defense rifle armies :D, russia needs 7/10 turns to get it, germans start with it, you didn´t use a single one the entire game...

It is available with Radar tech, not radio tech like it says in the pedia..

+25% attack & defense to all players units in 2 tile radius.
 
RickFGS said:
@Lanz: Radar Tower -> This will kill the russian 16 defense rifle armies :D, russia needs 7/10 turns to get it, germans start with it, you didn´t use a single one the entire game...

It is available with Radar tech, not radio tech like it says in the pedia..

+25% attack & defense to all players units in 2 tile radius.
Click to expand...

Didn't even realize that this was in the game... :wallbash:
Guess that's because I never really used them in like the last 6 years: my military games are usually over by the Middle Age, and in those games where I reach the Modern Age (UN or space victory games), I don't do any warfare anymore... :)

However, there is a problem with that as well: workers... I don't even have enough to repair my roads and improvements, reconnect bombed resources etc... I tried building a few new ones in the beginning, but food is so scarce in this scenario, that the pop is difficult to replace, leading to another production loss, if I build too many.
 
aksully said:
And a true observation and outcome of what the USAAF was attempting to prove with daylight precision strategic bombing and English nighttime bombing. And as to the Minor Axis research issue..once again I think Eric has got that right as Italy really didn't produce nor developed the capacity to produce any techs in reality. Once could also argue that the Russians should never be able to develop radar or at least can but at an incredibly high price. What they can and did produce was large formations of infantry and probably the finest all around tank in the T-34 and its variants. Also they should be able to produce large numbers of cheap labor units as should Germany as noted above.

I Hope you guys liked my new readable color!!!

So Eric..any planned changes based upon the comments we have provided you?

Sully

Also note that I have relocated to the the burning inferno which is San Antonio, Texas. It is hot...dam hot...:devil:
Click to expand...

I guess it is true that the Italians and Bulgarians and Romanians and the whole party weren't really strong (the Russian foothold on the west bank of the Volga was gained at the expense of the Romanians) , but still, I focused almost my entire war effort on Sevastopol, and then one day Russia sends one of the death stacks and obliterates me. Not to mention the fact that I couldn't reinforce the place because my roads were all cut off due to Russian bombing.

And, please don't interpret this as me being a sore loser, the Allies won far and square. :hatsoff:
 
Bow..No one thinks that! But it does raise the issue that certain techs/units should be harder or easier to build in this scenario if it attempts to mimic the actual capability of nations in 1941 and beyond. It was very late in the war when the Russians actually had a usuable air force and it wasn't bombers! It was the tank busting Sturmovik...an air to ground attack aircraft. So really..in this scenario..it should cost the russians twice as much to build a bomber throughout the war. But Infantry units with SMGs...much easier to build in 43 and on. The other real restriction of the Civ 3 game engine is the inability to destroy aircraft on the ground on airbases.

My other gripe is the lack of search aircraft and how they drove strategic decisions in capturing islands and such. No Mavis, no PBYs, no Emily's...a big focus of the Pacific War was about capturing bases by which search aircraft could be based.

And hurricanes and typhoons that last months! That bombard a port one month and then the next attack ships at sea then back to land the next. Doesn't work for me. Sorry..oh and dust storms. Believe me..been in them..in the Sahara...nasty! But never had one last more than a month and go east, then north, then south...and no one would EVER attack a sand/dust storm or fire a gun at it????

And frankly..other than Eric..I have NO IDEA why anyone would want to play Nature in this game. BUT..it does allow a disinterested third party to start a MP game and protect the Master Password from any of the combatants. That is THE reason to have someone play Nature IMO.

Sully
 
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