Homophobia associated with higher rates of psychoticism

Yeah Kyriakos keeps trying to use the "children are too young" argument/excuse to explain his discomfort with gay-rights.

My 5 year old son has little girls trying to hold his hand and asking to be his "girlfriend" at school, so Kyriakos argument is just utterly false. Children are interested in, and can understand romantic relationships from the time they are old enough to see Cinderella marry the handsome prince.

Actually there is no sense (at least a direct one) of sexual relationship pre-puberty. I also was looking for 'girlfriends' pre-pubery, and recall fully how i meant it. I wanted some touch, and talking/being together. That did not feature any sexual impression rising out of the sight of the female form; if anything (for me anyway) prior to puberty there was a focus on pretty forms as something not tied by itself to male/female (although i did regard some females as better looking, but tbh i was wrong in how i saw most of them).
A child is less tied to what adults view as 'reality'. Just look at how a serene, friendly and smiling, fat and aged teacher can seem to the child to be gorgeous and very young :)
 
Actually there is no sense (at least a direct one) of sexual relationship pre-puberty.
I don't say this often... but... Source:confused:? Or is that your professional opinion?
I wanted some touch, and talking/being together.
If your wife tells you that she met a man at work today and she wants some "touch and talking/being together" with that man... You would say "OK honey that sounds fine and not at all sexual"... right?
A child is less tied to what adults view as 'reality'.
You have said this before. How is that relevant? Are you saying that because they believe in imaginary and make believe things that they can't properly understand anything real?

Actually... now that you mention it, I think Richard Dawkins would probably agree with you that theists are far too immersed in make-believe and magical thinking, to properly understand reality... So is that what you are saying or does this concept only apply to children somehow?
Just look at how a serene, friendly and smiling, fat and aged teacher can seem to the child to be gorgeous and very young :)
So only children, with their flawed perceptions could view fat women as attractive? Is that what you are saying? If so then you are wrong. BBW pornography has a substantial market-share, so plenty of adults find fat girls sexually attractive.
 
^I think you are projecting a ton of stuff onto me.

Given i am not against anyone by default, i don't think there is a reason to post more here, and i urge you to stop thinking i am against any group like that.
 
Well I knew I was homosexual at the age of 4.
 
Man, this thread went to hell way slower than I hoped. OT, are you alright?

Thread derailments here are when everyone stays on topic.
 
An issue is that children are not able to form an actual view on sexual matters, cause they are not even in puberty yet. So i doubt it is a good idea to tell them about homosexuality anyway.
So you think children should not be permitted to read the Bible, or read many religious sites on the internet, or even go to many churches where it is frequently mentioned in sermons? Isn't that where so many Christian, Jewish, and Muslim children get their information on this very topic right now? They certainly aren't informed about it in public schools in the US, at least until they have some sort of sex education class much later that might mention it in some of the more liberal parts of the country. Heaven forbid.

Huh. Are you implying that religions are inherently homophobic?
Do you think it is possible for them not to be so when they call it a "sin"?

BTW, there are "bad" words presented in various images at this site. So you might consider it to be NSFW.

The Homophobia of "Love The Sinner, Hate The Sin"

Fighting against the tide of public opinion, unsuccessful court cases and well, history, the Christian right can't always trot out Westboro Baptist Church's "God Hates Fags" when framing their homophobia. Instead, they disguise it under the concept of "love the sinner, hate the sin" in order to create the image of love and tolerance. It's very much the opposite.

What I'm writing about isn't new. In fact, the very phrase and it's implications were the subject of a diary in Aug 2013. Such statements are all over the internet and normally I ignore them until this one:

True Christians Love Gay People

flew onto my radar screen. Why this one? I'm acquainted with a close friend of the author who linked to it in a Facebook post. Otherwise I doubt I'd have ever seen it. I hate to link to it because I don't want to drive traffic to the site. The obscure author deserves continued obscurity. However, the piece is instructive on the inherent homophobia behind the concept in how it conflates the things you do with things you are and how a seemingly gracious offer of acceptance is loaded with judgement.

I would like to acknowledge some of the C&J comment crew for their input when I originally broached this subject: mudslide, DrLori, gardnerhill, foresterbob, anon004, escapee, legendmn, and of course Bill in Portland Maine.

Let's jump below the clearly gay, sinful, squiggle, and examine the salient points.

Love and Judgement

From the piece:

"Loving someone doesn't mean you have to approve of any sins they may be committing. Nor does it mean that you need to be accepting of their sins. Doesn't loving someone mean in part that you should want to help them; that you should want the best for them?"

The presumption here is that homosexuality is a sin which is typically traced back to Levitican Old Testament quotes and later New Testament Paul admonishments. There's always a debate over the modern applicability of Iron Age goatherd traditions that may contain some echoes of older Bronze Age tribal religions combined with a Roman era apocalyptic death cult. However, it's safe to say that certain points in the Bible have become outdated in the 2000-2500 years since they were first written. The social context of such edicts no longer apply. It might have made sense from a tribal health perspective to prohibit certain activities. We're talking about eating shellfish, touching pigskin or wearing mixed fiber clothing, etc. Moreover, manpower was important for those goatherds doing daily tasks, or driving off rival tribes or needing bodies to till the fields. As such, every sperm was sacred but with with 7 billion of us crowding the planet, even that claim to justify homosexuality as a sin is just as outdated.

If the author of the cited piece wants to ignore that social context, then he sins just as much the next time he wears a cotton-poly blend t-shirt while ordering sweet and sour pork carryout.

I mean we don't condone slavery and stone women for adultery anymore, do we?

The problem is that "you" remain the judge of what is sin and what is not, in this case cherry picking among the Biblical laundry list to justify the final judgement. Any conclusion based on that premise is misguided at best, patently bigoted at worst.

The quoted paragraph is all about conditional love, namely "I love you but I'll keep right on judging you". How that is sustained love escapes me. As Micah Murray states "It's a special sort of condescending love we've reserved for the gay community". It ignores the fact that being gay isn't an action, it's a state of being. While some denominations, for example Catholicism, makes a distinction between homosexual desires and homosexual acts (the former is not a sin, the latter is), it's uncertain if the Christian right makes that distinction and if so on a consistent basis. It matters not because in either case, it calls upon the person to deny their biology. Seeking love and happiness is the birthright of every human being. Last time I checked, we as a country embodied that sentiment in one of our founding documents.

There is much more like this from the article. I won't completely bore you by posting even more of it that you will likely just ignore anyway.
 
@Forma: I actually think that speaking much on religions to children is not a good idea either, again given their ability to imagine narratives which may place such things in rather un-workable roles in their life.
I am not arguing to force parents do this or that, of course, but my view- as a mere citizen of Eurasia- is quite clearly against it.
 
Well, good for you for being consistent in this matter.

It is one thing for parents to teach their children not to kill, steal, and hate others. It is quite another for them to brainwash them that being a homosexual is a "sin", which ironically leads to hatred of others in many cases.
 
Do you think it is possible for them not to be so when they call it a "sin"?


There is much more like this from the article. I won't completely bore you by posting even more of it that you will likely just ignore anyway.
I'm not ignoring anything. I just don't read every wall of cut&paste.
Given the anecdotal evidence you provided - some supposedly homophobic views (possibly due to psychological defects) by some religious people, I assume your answer is 'yes' to the question if religions are inherently homophobic.
 
Here, in Bulgaria, if you don't nail a gay to a cross, you're expelled from the community. It's true, google it.
 
Why yes, we did resurrect an ancient Pagan religion. It all started when all those bloody immigrants came in.
 
I'm not ignoring anything. I just don't read every wall of cut&paste.
Given the anecdotal evidence you provided - some supposedly homophobic views (possibly due to psychological defects) by some religious people, I assume your answer is 'yes' to the question if religions are inherently homophobic.

The various religious doctrines available to us on this planet don't have the best track record in acceptance of homosexuality, and I am definitely interested in the claim that they do. Is the fear of being outed in a religious community a literary cliche with no basis in reality, in your mind?
 
I'm not ignoring anything. I just don't read every wall of cut&paste.
You don't seem to read any of it because it disagrees with your preconceived notions. If you had, you would realize there wasn't anything "anecdotal" stated or even insinuated in this eloquently stated few paragraphs of clearly personal opinion.

Given the anecdotal evidence you provided - some supposedly homophobic views (possibly due to psychological defects) by some religious people, I assume your answer is 'yes' to the question if religions are inherently homophobic.
You think it is "anecdotal" that these religions preach hatred towards homosexuals? That they are consequently victimized, persecuted, and even murdered as a direct result? That nearly every single Christian Republican in Congress continue to refuse to provide homosexuals the very same rights as everybody else in this regard for that very reason? Because they claim it would violate their own "rights" to discriminate against them based on their silly religious beliefs?

It is blatantly obvious what is occurring here. It requires intentionally ignoring the facts to not be able to discern the truth.

If Christians no longer support stoning women to death for adultery or stoning everybody to death for blasphemy, they should feel exactly the same way about the passages condemning homosexuality, insist they don't eat shellfish, touch pigskin, or wear clothes made of different materials.
 
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