Hoover Dam not a great wonder

[Sir_Lancelot]

Why is the Hoover Dam a great wonder in the civilization games? Because it's the biggest dam in the US? Because the developers didn't hear about the Itaipu dam?

The fact that the big wonder in the game is not the ITAIPU is a sacrilege. It is one of the wonders of the modern world. And the largest hydroelectric dam in the world. Completed 1983, construction began 1970.

 

[Greybriar]

If it makes you feel any better, this site lists both Hoover Dam and Itaipu dam as modern wonders of the world.

Personally it wouldn't matter to me if it were the Itaipu dam instead of the Hoover dam. After all Civ3 is just a game and nothing to get bent out of shape over.

 

[SuperBeaverInc.]

Perhaps name recognition played a role in it

 

[Sir_Lancelot]

If it makes you feel any better, this site lists both Hoover Dam and Itaipu dam as modern wonders of the world.

Personally it wouldn't matter to me if it were the Itaipu dam instead of the Hoover dam. After all Civ3 is just a game and nothing to get bent out of shape over.

I didn't see that list before. But there is other, different lists also. Wikipedia have some info on it.

The Hoover is impressive enough, but as a the great wonder of the world it would be natural to pick the greatest. I don't remember all the numbers in my head, but I think in size the Hoover isn't even in the same league as the Itaipu.

Civ just a game? Very well, but I'm a fanatic!

 

[aluka]

Also there were considerable engineering challanges in building it. Re-routing the river through a mountain or something along those lines. There were probably a number of dams they could choose. Probably has to do with the time the dam was actually built. You wouldn't have the three gorges dam built in the industrial ages.

 

[vmxa]

First if you asked 100 million American to name a dam, nearly all would list Hoover. I suspect its name would come up in much of the world.

Few would know of the dam you are talking about. Second I am not sure it is a wonder as the engineering aspect is old hat nowadays. Hoover and the Panama canal would be easy today, not so easy when they were constructed.

Last it is a game and not all that accurate on many subjects, so why sweat it? I think it is understandable that an American would create a game and use what they knew, rather than do a lot of research.

 

[MAS]

They used the 3 Gorges dam in china for Civ4 (though the graphics look more like hover, so I suspect they changed it mid development) I think that was a great move!

As for Civ3, what vmxa said...

 

[Heretic_Cata]

Hey, i think i'll change the Hoover Dam wonder to Itaipu Dam in my mod.

 

[Stazro]

First if you asked 100 million American to name a dam, nearly all would list Hoover. I suspect its name would come up in much of the world.

Guess where i first heard of Hoover Dam... Could it be a game from a certain series called... Civilization?

Btw, i'm not american

 

[AutomatedTeller]

and I just heard of the Itaipu dam today.

Why Hoover? Well, the wonders are all pretty euro-american centric, except for the Great Wall and Sun-Tzu's, so that fits. You can be upset with that, if you want.

 

[Whomp]

Not to minimize Itaipu, Three Gorges or Yacireta dams which are all marvelous but Hoovers was built earlier. I would also contend it played an integral part in the economic might of the US as we know it today. California is the 8th largest economy in the world partly due to Hoovers. The dam also supports some of the fastest growing states in the U.S. (California, Arizona and Nevada).

Hoover's tidbits...
The hardhat was invented, and first used, by the construction workers of the Hoover Dam. It was originally made of two baseball caps dipped in tar and allowed to harden.

Before construction could begin on the dam itself, loose rock had to be removed from the canyon walls. Special men were required for the job, men called "high-scalers." Their job was to climb down the canyon walls on ropes, where they worked with jackhammers and dynamite to strip away the loose rock.

 

[Mirc]

First if you asked 100 million American to name a dam, nearly all would list Hoover. I suspect its name would come up in much of the world.

I'm probably an example of ignorance, but I didn't know about any of them before I played civ.

 

[Yosemite]

Why is the Hoover Dam a great wonder in the civilization games? Because it's the biggest dam in the US? Because the developers didn't hear about the Itaipu dam?

The fact that the big wonder in the game is not the ITAIPU is a sacrilege. It is one of the wonders of the modern world. And the largest hydroelectric dam in the world. Completed 1983, construction began 1970.

1) The game was made by an American and its largest projected audience was Americans. Would a game made in Russia and geared toward the Russians have celebrated the American trans-continental railroad? No, it would have celebrated the trans-siberian express, and appropriately so.

2) If we wish to use such a utilitarian view of things, setting aside the larger cultural significance of what the game illustrates, perhaps the Great Wall should be replaced with the Maginot Line. That would have held back the Huns pretty darn good, I think.

3) We are all familiar with the underlying stereotype here, that all Americans are arrogant and ignorant, etc. I personally don't appreciate that stereotype, and I would speculate that the administrators of this American forum do not either.

4) Edit: And yes, I am aware of the irony herein, that I am working to oppose stereotypes of Americans though my avatar is of Winston Churchill and the subtitle to my name is "Yer Brain on Sean Connery," another Brit.

 

[Marsden]

Hoover was built in the industrial age, those other dams were built in the modern age, but the dam is an industrial age wonder. Just because something bigger is built in a later age doesn't mean the original wasn't a wonder when it was built.

Helicopters, tanks, and other vehicles are commonplace now, does this make DaVinci's drawings back in the 16th century of these concepts less innovative?

People circle the globe all the time now, does that make Magellan's feat less impressive?

Just because something bigger comes out after doesn't really detract from the "wonderfulness" of the original, unless of course, the original was not successful or just barely done before the new item. If the Itaipu dam was finished in 1940 then or sooner, it would make a difference.

 

[Sir_Lancelot]

Guess where i first heard of Hoover Dam... Could it be a game from a certain series called... Civilization?

Btw, i'm not american

I knew Itaipu, but didn't learn about the Hoover until I played Civ. So maybe I should say "thank you Sid", because I learned something?

Hoover was built in the industrial age, those other dams were built in the modern age, but the dam is an industrial age wonder. Just because something bigger is built in a later age doesn't mean the original wasn't a wonder when it was built.

Just because something bigger comes out after doesn't really detract from the "wonderfulness" of the original, unless of course, the original was not successful or just barely done before the new item. If the Itaipu dam was finished in 1940 then or sooner, it would make a difference.

You've got a point there.



But we must also remember that the Itaipu was not just a fantastic dam. It was also a victory of diplomacy, co-operation between two former enemies. The dam is on the border between Brazil and Paraguay. It was then (in 1966) only about 90 years since a large percentage of the population in Paraguay was killed in a war between the two countries, and Brazil conquered half of Paraguay. This of course, was a big problem in 1966 when the Itaipu dam was planned.

 

[gmaharriet]

Just a piece of trivia you might find interesting...

Although Congress named it Hoover Dam for President Herbert Hoover in the early 1930's prior to construction, after Roosevelt became President in 1932, it was renamed "Boulder Dam", which was how I knew it as a child. A few years after Roosevelt died, it was changed back to "Hoover Dam". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoover_Dam

 

[AskReeves15]

1)
2) If we wish to use such a utilitarian view of things, setting aside the larger cultural significance of what the game illustrates, perhaps the Great Wall should be replaced with the Maginot Line. That would have held back the Huns pretty darn good, I think.

Well, if we are replacing wonders here forget about the Maginot Line. The greatest defence structure ever invented is most definitely the Lines of Torres Vadres. This defence structure is most definitely the greatest ever invented. Granted that the Great Wall is a fine piece of architecture it nevertheless is a relatively worthless defence structure as it was never intended to keep anyone out but only to keep them from getting away with there loot quickly. The Lines of Torres Vadres are anywhere from 40-60 km of forts and redoubts surrounding Lisbon and containing over a 1000 pieces of artillery. The Maginot Line probably would have done well against the Romans. Unfortunately, the Maginot Line was worthless against its contemporary enemies whereas the Lines repulsed the Napoleon's army and was the turning point of the Napoleonic Wars.