Horsemen vs. swordsmen
- Thread starter krw72588
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KinslayerDG
Chieftain
Its kinda like comparing apples and oranges really.
Strider
In Retrospect
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- Jan 7, 2002
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- 8,984
Swordsmen: (3/2/1)
Horsemen: (2/1/2)
If you do it point wise it'll be:
3+2+1= 6
2+1+2= 5
Thus swordsmen would be better, but horsemen are also faster.. and have the ability to retreat... letting you use them over again if you manage to escape.
Horsemen: (2/1/2)
If you do it point wise it'll be:
3+2+1= 6
2+1+2= 5
Thus swordsmen would be better, but horsemen are also faster.. and have the ability to retreat... letting you use them over again if you manage to escape.
Aramazd
Deity
Horsemen mobilty
Kaiser_Berger
Terran Emporer
I usually bas my strategy on what kind of resources I have available. If I have one and not the other, its an obvious choice.
My main reason for choosing one or the other though is the size of the map and where I start. If I'm on a large pangea, Horsemen are a much smarter choice because of the mobility. If I'm on an island or small continent, swordsmen are preferrable. In the end, either works fine. Remember, it's not the size of your stack of doom, but how you use it.
My main reason for choosing one or the other though is the size of the map and where I start. If I'm on a large pangea, Horsemen are a much smarter choice because of the mobility. If I'm on an island or small continent, swordsmen are preferrable. In the end, either works fine. Remember, it's not the size of your stack of doom, but how you use it.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
I usually prefer Swordsmen. Ancient era wars are typically short-range, meaning that the Swords' lower movement don't mean so much, whereas their 50% extra attack really tells when attacking cities.
If I'm having both Horses and Iron, and I'm waging an offensive war, I'll have a big stack of Swords for assaulting the AI's cities, and smaller numbers of Horsemen to pick of enemy stragglers, pillage and kill off enemy Horsemen. On defense, the ideal really is to wait to the AI stack is next to my city, then kill off all but the last unit with Swordsmen, and then kill of the last one with a Horseman, who subsequently moves back to my city before other AI units can attack it.
If I'm having both Horses and Iron, and I'm waging an offensive war, I'll have a big stack of Swords for assaulting the AI's cities, and smaller numbers of Horsemen to pick of enemy stragglers, pillage and kill off enemy Horsemen. On defense, the ideal really is to wait to the AI stack is next to my city, then kill off all but the last unit with Swordsmen, and then kill of the last one with a Horseman, who subsequently moves back to my city before other AI units can attack it.
Rhino Ryan
Is a Fuganshna Lover
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
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- 80
Personally the whole retreat bussiness to me seems like you loose one hit point. I a man who doesn't build barracks basicaly has a horse man with 2 hit points. Most people defend with spearmen (unless UU is better spearman), a horseman doesn't do as well against a Spearman as a swrdsman would. And since this is an Ancient era war Civs haven't expanded a lot and there isn't a lot of space to conquer anyways so extra speed is useless. As for me I say if you lost... You don't deserve to live as usually on the next turn they attack again (if they are alive).
handy900
Deity
I'm currently palying Regent as I work my way up in level so this may not apply to higher levels...
Your question suggests you have the resouces to build both. When I can, I like to use both in combination. The horses pillage & retreat, the swords attack. After I pick a victim I pillage around my target city while I attack. Horses are also good hunting down & destroying enemy units low on health points that are out in the open. I try to leave the roads connecting cities if I can so I don't have to rebuild. I'll pillage the resources & luxuries first, then mines, then irrigation. Damaging enemy economy makes their ultimate removal from the game faster & easier.
Your question suggests you have the resouces to build both. When I can, I like to use both in combination. The horses pillage & retreat, the swords attack. After I pick a victim I pillage around my target city while I attack. Horses are also good hunting down & destroying enemy units low on health points that are out in the open. I try to leave the roads connecting cities if I can so I don't have to rebuild. I'll pillage the resources & luxuries first, then mines, then irrigation. Damaging enemy economy makes their ultimate removal from the game faster & easier.
thedirk
Master of Stealth
I use the swordsman more myself. The extra attack point is absolutely neccessary against spearmen. Also, a swordsman is able to defend against counter attack in the field and defend any newly aquired cities.
NewDestroyer
Vegetto
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2003
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- 406
if the horsemen attacks mathamatically they would tie because 2>2, if swordman attacks 3>2 so swordsmen would win, so i think a tie but it would depend on the situation at hand, if u wanna blitz some1 horsemen better, wanna kill slow and steady swordsman better. oh and strider theoretically the horseman could atatck the swordsman twice so it might have a better shot to win.
Qitai
.
Depends on how you use them. In combat, speed can often make a difference if use wisely. The key idea would be to attack the weak points and avoid counter attack. With proper use, the horseman will not need to defend (i.e. Never leave it in a position that it will be attacked). Similarly, if a swordman cannot get a chance to attack, it is only as good as a spearman. So, the right type of troop depends on how you are able to create the right attack/defense opportunity.
Fanny Brice
Prince
Exactly. Swordmen primarily. A few horsemen in the mix can really come in handy.
Puzzlinon
Insomaniac
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2003
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- 270
Horseman are kinda lame by themselves, but they're still useful.
The retreat capability isn't much use when the horseman is attacked in the open. Most often, a one-hitpoint fleeing hm will get killed by a second enemy pest in the same turn. But it's very handy as an offensive feature. You can use hm to weaken the strong defenders in a city, without losing all the early attackers.
So moving up on a city with both horsemen and swordsmen, pillaging or what have you with the hm while the swordsmen get into position, can be very effective, because you can take down the city in a turn without losing many units at all. Use the horsemen first, and then the sm - once there are a couple of points taken off a spearman, a swordsman will usually take it down in one attack, even in a city.
At the end you have some red horsemen needing healing, but you have some solid swordsmen in place to quell resistance and defend the city, and the hm's can scoot back to your nearest safe city to recover.
Of course it's way better with 3-movement attackers (ansar warriors, cav, etc) because they can pillage each turn and still come to rest under cover of the advancing swordsman/med-inf stuff.
Upgrade paths are different; it's handy to build up horsemen around a growing civ as peace-through-strength troops (to discourage predators) because you can turn them into knights and cavalry in the hot fighting of those later times.
PTW's med inf / guerrilla upgrade path at least means you don't get stuck with swordsmen chasing around after modern armor, but it's a bit less sexy than the cavalry path - a guerrilla is a bit of a compromise; the defence is nice but weak and by cavalry/tank times, one-movement attackers are pretty useless.
I usually accumulate horsemen in the central cities and swordsmen out in the periphery; because of production rates, you get about the same amount of each, with the horsemen ready to move where they're needed, and the sm contributing to defence.
The retreat capability isn't much use when the horseman is attacked in the open. Most often, a one-hitpoint fleeing hm will get killed by a second enemy pest in the same turn. But it's very handy as an offensive feature. You can use hm to weaken the strong defenders in a city, without losing all the early attackers.
So moving up on a city with both horsemen and swordsmen, pillaging or what have you with the hm while the swordsmen get into position, can be very effective, because you can take down the city in a turn without losing many units at all. Use the horsemen first, and then the sm - once there are a couple of points taken off a spearman, a swordsman will usually take it down in one attack, even in a city.
At the end you have some red horsemen needing healing, but you have some solid swordsmen in place to quell resistance and defend the city, and the hm's can scoot back to your nearest safe city to recover.
Of course it's way better with 3-movement attackers (ansar warriors, cav, etc) because they can pillage each turn and still come to rest under cover of the advancing swordsman/med-inf stuff.
Upgrade paths are different; it's handy to build up horsemen around a growing civ as peace-through-strength troops (to discourage predators) because you can turn them into knights and cavalry in the hot fighting of those later times.
PTW's med inf / guerrilla upgrade path at least means you don't get stuck with swordsmen chasing around after modern armor, but it's a bit less sexy than the cavalry path - a guerrilla is a bit of a compromise; the defence is nice but weak and by cavalry/tank times, one-movement attackers are pretty useless.
I usually accumulate horsemen in the central cities and swordsmen out in the periphery; because of production rates, you get about the same amount of each, with the horsemen ready to move where they're needed, and the sm contributing to defence.
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
On monarch and lower levels, all I need is nothing but horsemen.
This is on larger land masses, where the AI is still in the expansion phase for awhile.....
You leave the AI reeling back, so he is spending all of his time just trying to replace the spearmen your killing, and so he isn't building any offensive units for your horsemen to worry about. On the lower levels, I don't need stacks, just send them in groups of 2-3, capturing/razing a few border towns, then he begs for peace giving you some more of his cities, so in 5-6 turns, he's lost 50-75% of his empire. Now he's pretty much crippled for a long time. Go to next civ and repeat (or just declare war again, if you want to play nasty).
Easier to leave horsemen lined up just outside a border town, and then be able to attack the city the same turn you declare war with no reputation hit. Most AI cities have only 1 spearman, maximum of 2 for most of the early years. you kill that first spearman, then he hits the panic mode and wants to get another defender in there, so doesn't build offense, just defense. Swordsmen are too slow and give the AI time to react (pop-rush a defender).
This is on larger land masses, where the AI is still in the expansion phase for awhile.....
You leave the AI reeling back, so he is spending all of his time just trying to replace the spearmen your killing, and so he isn't building any offensive units for your horsemen to worry about. On the lower levels, I don't need stacks, just send them in groups of 2-3, capturing/razing a few border towns, then he begs for peace giving you some more of his cities, so in 5-6 turns, he's lost 50-75% of his empire. Now he's pretty much crippled for a long time. Go to next civ and repeat (or just declare war again, if you want to play nasty).
Easier to leave horsemen lined up just outside a border town, and then be able to attack the city the same turn you declare war with no reputation hit. Most AI cities have only 1 spearman, maximum of 2 for most of the early years. you kill that first spearman, then he hits the panic mode and wants to get another defender in there, so doesn't build offense, just defense. Swordsmen are too slow and give the AI time to react (pop-rush a defender).
Sailorstick
Vanilla 1.29 - Conquest
On vanilla, horsemen are infinitely better because the swordsmen can't be upgraded. Also, horsemen have a good chance of surviving any battle. Horsemen win hands down.
NewDestroyer
Vegetto
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2003
- Messages
- 406
it all comes down to the situation which 1 u need
Daedalus420
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2003
- Messages
- 29
For me I like Swordsmens, but I hate it when the enemy has alot of horsemen. They seem to do hit and run tactics, when I'm attacking they move around just out of sight, just when I'm out of reach a horsemen will come and steal workers or like 3-5 of 'em will jump a city. It makes me so mad :saiyan:
