How can you like this series so much ?

[PhilBowles]

I like Civ 5 for the same reason I like most other games. I like to build up my own stuff and destroy everyone else's. It's especially satisfying when the computer asks for a peace treaty that involves my giving them everything I have and they're the weaker party, not by units, but by sheer genious of how I mobilize my units. Ok, the AI is pretty bad at everything war related, but it's still fun outmaneuvering him/her.

Also, I've never played the other civ games for any length of time, but I love Civ 5. I have tried the earlier ones a couple times. Wasn't interested. I hear people complaining about Civ 5 on here. I don't get it. I have 143 hours logged on Steam (and I'm behind a firewall most of the time where steam can't track my time). What keeps me coming back to the game is that you can keep increasing the difficulty. It's never too easy. Winning on Emperor a couple times after being stopped in my tracks a dozen or more times is satisfying.

Plus, I learn new things about the game all the time. For example, stacking is not non-existent. There are two kinds of units that can stack. Also, sea units can stack with land units. This is only possible in a city, but it means you can have two defending units (usually ranged units) in a city at the same time, not to mention bombers. walls, etc. make your city have stronger attacks. You can take over cities with 1 hp if the city is also at 1 hp from ranged attacks (or whatever else). Chopping trees is a useful hammers bonus at the beginning of the game if used strategically. I also learn what units promote to what and when and where those techs are located on the tech tree. I also keep an eye on civil service and fertilizer. etc...

What's so simple and boring? You can play as simple or as meticulously as you decide.

As far as I can tell it's down to exploits. The Civ V AI is bad in some very predictable ways, and the types of player who like looking up cookie-cutter winning strategies that beat the computer can reliably beat it by doing the same thing every time, on any difficulty level.

This was true in the older Civ games as well, however the issue some people have with Civ V is that it's more consciously intended as a strategy game than the previous incarnations in the series, more than as an empire simulator. I've felt the downside to this approach myself on a few occasions - the AI always throws the same types of challenges at you, always tries to do diplomacy the same way, always tries to do combat the same way. Once you've beaten it once, the feeling goes, it gets boring doing it again. There's a perception that the older Civ games had more flavour to them, more minutiae you could explore while playing in a big Civ sandbox, a lot of which has been trimmed away or streamlined in Civ V in favour of a strategy game experience which is, perhaps, less challenging than it could be. And for Civ veterans, once you've cracked the way the new game works, it's not that challenging until Immortal - I barely played earlier Civ games above Prince but I can beat Civ V on Emperor.

While I think there's a lot of truth in all of that, I think it's also to miss the point that you can sandbox in Civ V and play the game you want to - at Emperor and below it's winnable, and even if it's not winnable at higher levels without fixed strategies and AI exploits, you can still have fun trying out different things to see how far you get. You can also happily play competitively; a lot of people don't realise that you can challenge yourself by setting objectives other than just 'win the game'. And winning a Civ V cultural victory above King is one of the toughest challenges any Civ game will throw at you at any level.

 

[Vorlath]

That's a good point about the AI being repetitive. I just find the different ways to win as entertaining. If someone only wants to play one kind of game, then fine. But I find if I try different goals, then even if the AI is the same, the outcomes and the way I go about it changes. And yes, I know you can't play anything you want at the higher levels.

Thanks for the suggestion. I wasn't aware cultural win on higher than King was more difficult than expected. See, I now have a WHOLE NEW GAME to try out.

 

[Sonereal]

Beside the groundbreaking principle, what's left of Civilization ?

The game.

You played one game, you played all.

No. See, there are these things called map scripts, random civilizations, mods, etc. They tend to not all be the same. Case and point, I played a game last month as Russia on a Fractal map. Two weeks later, I played a game as the Persians on a Pangea map. I can assure (and insure you provided you're old enough to pay insurance) you that these games played differently.

I see no reason why this shouldn't be more and more boring with time.

You're on to something. Things do tend to get boring if you do the exact same thing over and over again over time.

Sure, the game mechanics are different every time, so you have to play and try in order to tame them. But what Civilization else than a mechanics taming ? I mean I can play and try to tame the mechanics of a teddy bear, how is sewn this eye, does it have a tail, etc... it would not be less exciting.

Your analogy...is all over the place. The mechanics of playing with a teddy bear is that you hold it or snuggle it or throw it in the air or have tea parties with it and all these other things. For your analogy to work, I'm assuming you're modding the game in which case, you should try running the game and playing it every once in a while. Try out those mods your analogy has left me to assume you're making.

Really, I've played Settler diff.level Civ5 games lately, it was fun but boring around the end, especially if military is involved. Now I just played a King diff.level game, man, it's boring but from the start ! Everything is so slow... You know you have to build the National College, but you have to build libraries in every of your cities first... you know you have to build colosseums and markets in every of your cities also in order to compete... where is the fun here ? You have to build some types of buildings in every of your cities ? Really ? What do I do during all that time, beside hitting the enter key ?

I agree with you. The game tends to bore me when I'm playing on the easiest possible difficulty of the game. As for the rest...well, what's new? I could apply the same logic to a great many games. You know you have to do this, this, and this in Dwarf Fortress for your Dwarfs not to become psychotic drunks (they will anyway). You have to push this button to fire the gun and this one to reload in this FPS and it's the same in this, this, and this FPS as well.

In this RTS, you know you have to get your power plants running up ASAP or else you won't have enough blah blah blah blah pylons. Interesting enough, the game has four speeds including a quick one. You can also mod the gamespeeds but I assume you know this giving your extensive work with teddy bears and/or modding.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not naive to that point to consider Civilization other than a collection of simplistic, unfun and boring mechanics anymore. Me too I was pleased by the combat animations ! They were very good ! Me too I was pleased by the nice graphics ! But after ? Does it really have just this to offer ? Well it seems that yes. Civilization 5 is only an update of the original game, as have been Civ2, Civ3, Civ4, etc...

Congratulations. You're realizing that games in a sequential series tend to be improvements or changes based on the mechanics of previous games because completly throwing out the book and deciding that everybody will be playing with dragons and ninjas in Civilization V would've been far better since it would be new. Then again, I don't go around making what is in essence a

simplistic, unfun and boring

rant about a game or series of games I've been complaining about for a *checks watch that tracks days and months* year or so now.

So let me ask you something... are you really a fan ? How this can be ? Did you played every iteration of the series and took, objectively or even subjectively, the same pleasure each time ?

Are you asking me am I a fan or are you asking me why don't we share the exact same opinions? Rest assured, one of those two questions is interesting at best, worthy of ridicule at worst.

Come on, if you answer 'yes' to this question, I really want you to tell me something : how can this be ?

"How can your opinion differ from mine?!!!on???Fjoeonftheduhhell?

What do you find in the different iterations of the series that renew your pleasure on intact ? Don't you feel you are playing the same game over and over (beside the little mechanics twits which are lame), without major changes ? What is making your feeling ?

I find the fact that the sames are different often renew my pleasure on...intact? Probably because they're not the exact same game with the exact same mechanics played on settler difficulty on the exact same map script with the exact same civilization with the exact same leader in the exact same start position at the same exact time of the day.

As a "Civ fan" myself (whatever it means), but a delusioned one (yes Civilization series exists to be up to date graphically, not to evolve), I'm really curious of your answers there and there.

Yes. Remember 1UPT in Civilization IV? No? Then the game evolved.

I read through this post and asked myself, "Sonereal, are you sure you're playing Civilization IV or Civilization Revolution 2: Ancient Aliens Return? Because apparently, all the games in the series are the same."

I had to sit down and ask myself, maybe I'm playing the same game over and over again. That would explain why I always send my warriors due northeast on the fifth turn of every marathon run or why I always build my first settler in my capital.

Are you even a Civilization fan if you unconditionally hate the game and think it's

simplistic, unfun and boring

because I wouldn't consider myself of a series I found

simplistic, unfun and boring

if I thought it was

simplistic, unfun and boring

because I would have to come up with reasons to keep myself playing such a

simplistic

and

unfun

game I found

boring.

It boils down to, if you dislike the game series, that's cool but what point are you trying to make? That it's repetitive if you start logging dozens, if not hundreds into hours into it?

 

[Naokaukodem]

the game.



No. See, there are these things called map scripts, random civilizations, mods, etc. They tend to not all be the same. Case and point, i played a game last month as russia on a fractal map. Two weeks later, i played a game as the persians on a pangea map. I can assure (and insure you provided you're old enough to pay insurance) you that these games played differently.



You're on to something. Things do tend to get boring if you do the exact same thing over and over again over time.



Your analogy...is all over the place. The mechanics of playing with a teddy bear is that you hold it or snuggle it or throw it in the air or have tea parties with it and all these other things. For your analogy to work, i'm assuming you're modding the game in which case, you should try running the game and playing it every once in a while. Try out those mods your analogy has left me to assume you're making.



I agree with you. The game tends to bore me when i'm playing on the easiest possible difficulty of the game. As for the rest...well, what's new? I could apply the same logic to a great many games. You know you have to do this, this, and this in dwarf fortress for your dwarfs not to become psychotic drunks (they will anyway). You have to push this button to fire the gun and this one to reload in this fps and it's the same in this, this, and this fps as well.

In this rts, you know you have to get your power plants running up asap or else you won't have enough blah blah blah blah pylons. Interesting enough, the game has four speeds including a quick one. You can also mod the gamespeeds but i assume you know this giving your extensive work with teddy bears and/or modding.


Congratulations. You're realizing that games in a sequential series tend to be improvements or changes based on the mechanics of previous games because completly throwing out the book and deciding that everybody will be playing with dragons and ninjas in civilization v would've been far better since it would be new. Then again, i don't go around making what is in essence a



rant about a game or series of games i've been complaining about for a *checks watch that tracks days and months* year or so now.



Are you asking me am i a fan or are you asking me why don't we share the exact same opinions? Rest assured, one of those two questions is interesting at best, worthy of ridicule at worst.


"how can your opinion differ from mine?!!!on???fjoeonftheduhhell?



I find the fact that the sames are different often renew my pleasure on...intact? Probably because they're not the exact same game with the exact same mechanics played on settler difficulty on the exact same map script with the exact same civilization with the exact same leader in the exact same start position at the same exact time of the day.



Yes. Remember 1upt in civilization iv? No? Then the game evolved.

I read through this post and asked myself, "sonereal, are you sure you're playing civilization iv or civilization revolution 2: Ancient aliens return? Because apparently, all the games in the series are the same."

i had to sit down and ask myself, maybe i'm playing the same game over and over again. That would explain why i always send my warriors due northeast on the fifth turn of every marathon run or why i always build my first settler in my capital.

Are you even a civilization fan if you unconditionally hate the game and think it's



because i wouldn't consider myself of a series i found



if i thought it was



because i would have to come up with reasons to keep myself playing such a



and



game i found



it boils down to, if you dislike the game series, that's cool but what point are you trying to make? That it's repetitive if you start logging dozens, if not hundreds into hours into it?

tl;dr

 

[howox]

tl;dr

Ohhhhh you did

 

[The_J]

Moderator Action: I guess the last posts prove that this thread is overdue.
Thread closed.