How diverse is civ6?

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Pedro II's mother is Austriac, from Habsbugo family.

That doesn't mean you make it to where Brazil and Spain are considered a Germanic nation at all.

Another place to have none representation is Afro-Americans, not only Civ 5 and Civ 6 but all series forget to put Haiti, Palmares, Seminoles.

Afro AMericans are a huge amount of population of Americas and we should also look to this community in order to do at least one afro-american civ.

Haiti I can see happening maybe even in Civ 7. I've already tried to explain the whole Seminole tribe not being an Afro-American group already, and I'm sure they would not be portrayed that way if they got into civ.

Honestly probably the most influential Seminole leader, Osceola, had Scottish descent.

 

[Evie]

You may have a point about the number of *actual* Germanic civs. England, Sweden, Netherlands, Norway and Germany is *already* a lot - it's ten percent of the civs! It may be justified, it may not be, but it's a point worth discussing.

Using a ridiculous one-drop rule to label everything that has any sort of tie with Germanic history as Germanic is not a point. It's ridiculous, and it only weakens your point.

I woudl love to see Haiti too (but the Seminole are not Afro-American). I would even be quite happy with Haiti replacing Canada (but NOT a Native people) in Civ VII.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I'm not Germanphobic,

Literally no one has said that you are Germanphobic. We are saying that you are too obsessed with the nationalities and ethnicities of the Civilizations and Leaders in Civ 6.

 

[Henri Christophe]

what about the possibility that many empires are non-ethnic? I'd say the Roman, Eastern Roman, Arabian and American polities are/were flat out not ethnic nation-states.

And just to add to that, I think it would be erroneous to apply post-Westphalian ideas of an integrated "nation-state" to pre-modern polities. Arguably feudal Europe, for example, had a bunch of largely transactional relationships that just aren't comparable to modern ideas of race.

That doesn't mean you make it to where Brazil and Spain are considered a Germanic nation at all.

I look the leaders background, it's impossible to say what is the ethinic in a diversity of Brazil, for example, where I lived, Rio de Janeiro, we are most african-portuguese descent, but in south is more germanic.

Honestly probably the most influential Seminole leader, Osceola, had Scottish descent.

I didn't know that, okay Osceola can be the best name for Seminole but just to have the idea of John Horse or Negro Abraham be able to lead Seminole nation make me so excited

Literally no one has said that you are Germanphobic. We are saying that you are too obsessed with the nationalities and ethnicities of the Civilizations and Leaders in Civ 6.

Evie had writed it but she edit before I be able to quoted her.

 

[The Civs 6]

I look the leaders background, it's impossible to say what is the ethinic in a diversity of Brazil, for example, where I lived, Rio de Janeiro, we are most african-portuguese descent, but in south is more germanic.


I didn't know that, okay Osceola can be the best name for Seminole but just to have the idea of John Horse or Negro Abraham be able to lead Seminole nation make me so excited

Evie had writed it but she edit before I be able to quoted her.

It's just injecting racial discussion where it doesn't belong.

But as we have discussed before, I'm on the same page as you with regards to how Civ 6 blobs or doesn't blob different regions and/or different peoples. My solution, however, is to deblob China and India a bit and to blob Western Europe a bit.

 

[AsH2]

Germanic history

How about "not feeding the troll"?

 

[Laurana Kanan]

Moderator Action: Please cease further discussion of other members, or passing negative judgment on the quality of other peoples' arguments. If further discussion on this topic cannot be done civilly, then this thread will be closed. Furthermore, any posts with the intent to annoy or to generate a negative reaction from other people are considered trolling and should cease.

 

[Henri Christophe]

My solution, however, is to deblob China and India a bit and to blob Western Europe a bit.

I'm in favor in deblob just India. China is good as united China. If this game do Tibet, for example, don't will be able to sell it to Chinese market.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I'm in favor in deblob just India. China is good as united China. If this game do Tibet, for example, don't will be able to sell it to Chinese market.

I actually agree with you on this. Mughals and Chola could do well, and we just need alternate Leaders to represent the different periods of Chinese history, and Tibet...

 

[The Civs 6]

I actually agree with you on this. Mughals and Chola could do well, and we just need alternate Leaders to represent the different periods of Chinese history, and Tibet...

To give credit to Chinese history, you really have to go beyond an alternate leader IMO. Han, San Guo (romance of the 3 kingdoms), Tang, Song, Ming, Qing and PRC all have been so important for world history as to deserve inclusion of some sort. Indeed, even KMT in Taiwan on its own has been significant enough. And that's not to mention pre-Han Chinese dynasties which are all comparable to many iron and bronze age inclusions in the series.

 

[Henri Christophe]

I actually agree with you on this. Mughals and Chola could do well, and we just need alternate Leaders to represent the different periods of Chinese history, and Tibet...

I would vote for Ahmednagar Sultanate because their black leader Malik Ambar, who rise from slavery to become a king in India's Deccan.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I actually agree with you on this. Mughals and Chola could do well, and we just need alternate Leaders to represent the different periods of Chinese history, and Tibet...

I'm fine with alternate leaders even representing India as well, like we currently have.

Though I agree that Mughals could possibly co-exist alongside an India civ, if they base the capital out of Lahore.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I'm fine with alternate leaders even representing India as well, like we currently have.

Though I agree that Mughals could possibly co-exist alongside an India civ, if they base the capital out of Lahore.

Chola could do this as well, considering they inhabited mostly Sri Lanka and some of Southern India. Also, a good Naval Civilization? Yes, please.

 

[Yudhisthira]

Chola could do this as well, considering they inhabited mostly Sri Lanka and some of Southern India.

Chola invaded Sri Lanka, they were not inhabitants of Sri Lanka.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Chola invaded Sri Lanka, they were not inhabitants of Sri Lanka.

Looking at the map, I see that now. At least they don't have too many Cities in mainland India.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Looking at the map, I see that now. At least they don't have too many Cities in mainland India.

This video show well where is the bases of Chola territory

 

[Yudhisthira]

Looking at the map, I see that now. At least they don't have too many Cities in mainland India.

Actually Chola occupation of Sri Lanka was only about half a century. Tbh Chola-Lankan rivalry looks like England-France in some way. So to use Chola as proxy for Sri Lanka won't be good idea.

 

[BuchiTaton]

Is highly unlikely even for civ 7, still what if CIV7 use dynastic names to de-blob India and China.

We already have Ottomans not Turks on game, dynasties help to represent an historical era without be an especific ethnicity, we all know the modern nationalism is something different to the traditional dynastic entities.

Han, Tufan and Qing instead of China, and Maurya, Chola and Gurkani instead of India.

What about the meme mascot Gandhi? Sell him as the second alternative leader for the 3 Indian civs

Maybe even have again Mao on the same way for China Too polemic?!
For sure but is also hypocrite to ignore the figure of Mao when Firaxis and most of world companies and goverments ignore chinese minorities just to please the CCP.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Actually Chola occupation of Sri Lanka was only about half a century. Tbh Chola-Lankan rivalry looks like England-France in some way. So to use Chola as proxy for Sri Lanka won't be good idea.

You, as an Indian, who do you think be the best option to deblob india?
and what do you think about Ahmadnegar Sultanate?

 

[Yudhisthira]

You, as an Indian, who do you think be the best option to deblob india?
and what do you think about Ahmadnegar Sultanate?

That's one tough job, but ok let me try

Not just because I am Indian, but as history,Cultural etc enthusiasts I want more representation from both China & India,especially since both of these region have very long & interesting history.

So here is an Idea, since both names India & China in a way r western terms for both of these regions & not self identifiers, civ 7 can drop it & be free from modern national baggage these terms come with. (Moreover it less Eurocentrism )

Now we have 2 continous civilizations with a mainstream & many substream cultures.

So for China we have a mainstream culture
Zhongguo civ (which is a perfectly valid,historical term, so PRC may not mind such deblobing)
& many substreams which became lost or assimilated like Gauls in Europe.

Yunnan Civs (Dali,Nanzhao)
Manchurian Civ
Xinjiang,Tibet etc.

Similarly for India, a mainstream culture
Aryavarta civ

& substream cultures

Tamilkam civs
Gandhara civ
Ladakh, Assam(Kamarupa) civ

& may be Sindh & Bengal, if one think more one may get something out of Deccan also thou more difficult case.

and what do you think about Ahmadnegar Sultanate?

⁸
Don't think it should be a civ, it looks like drop in a ocean IMO.
The thing is if we go with such drops,then there r crazy amount of them.
One might argue for Malwa Sultanate,Chamanas,Candelas,Sisodiyas,Hyderabad Sult,Pandyas,Pallavas,Maukharis Aulikaras, Pushyabutis, Chalukyas, Satvahnas,Vatakas,Kalchuris,Oudh Sult., & I can go on
So here as an Indian I won't mind if I can get all of them but ofcourse that is not possible & historically sound & run contrary to established (both in game & real) definition of Civ.