How do I get high production to build wonders?

[CivAddict2013]

Hey, CivAddict2013 here. I'll often see one AI spamming out wonders. But even if I have a workshop, a factory, ironworks and every production tile worked; wonders will still take long to build.

So how can I get more production on wonders?

 

[Erneiz Hyde]

You can never spam wonders like the AI unless you're on Noble or something. Wonders taking 15-20 turns (at most) to build are normal for the most part, unless it's a very early wonder missed by the AI (Halicarnassus sometimes does this) or it's the end game when you have tremendous production.

 

[CivAddict2013]

You can never spam wonders like the AI unless you're on Noble or something. Wonders taking 15-20 turns (at most) to build are normal for the most part, unless it's a very early wonder missed by the AI (Halicarnassus sometimes does this) or it's the end game when you have tremendous production.

So there's no way to get wonders down to around 12 turns?

 

[Kriogen]

Great Engineer tile improvement.

Hammer cargo ships.

Golden Age.

 

[Sclb]

You can definitely get wonders down to 12, or even below 10. Need a strong capital with production boosting buildings and mines. You have to have cargo feeding food or else you'll starve. Hammer cargo is pretty weak unless it's at the end, but you won't need boost at the end anyway since you can get any post modern era wonders easily if your science is there.

 

[Kriogen]

Theres also:
- religion (Religious Community)
- Egypt (UA)
- Germans (Hanse)
- Natural Wonder (this is more for Spain)
- social policies (Tradition, Liberty, Exploration).

 

[vanatteveldt]

The first thing you need is population, a small capital can never have enough people to work all the mines and specialists you need to get high production. So, to get really good production, make sure to feed food caravans into the capital as soon as possible to get decent pop.

For inspiration, two screenshots from my recent DCL Russia game. That game had a really good production capital, and of course the +1 hammer on strategic also helps a lot. Note that I'm not a top player, so I'm sure a really dedicated spammer would get more out of it, probably mainly by simply having higher pop:

t138, 26 pop, 68 production, new wonder (taj mahal) 10 turns

Spoiler :

t174, 32 pop, production 163 (boosted by GA, hydro plant, chemistry, new wonder (christo redentor) 8 turns

Spoiler :

 

[sun8119]

So there's no way to get wonders down to around 12 turns?

With a strong capital (tradition, SoL, 45+ pop) I 've had games when late game wonders take like ~5-7 turns to build, so sure there is a way

 

[Rosiel]

How do you get your cap to 45 pop at a point in the game when you still care about building wonders ?

I usually go full tradition / freedom and in most of my games I will build either ToA or HG or both, always have 1 or 2 food ships/caravans going its way and micromanage the growth very closely in my capital and always have, yet it is very rare that I will have even reached 40 pop by the end of the game. Usually by the time the pop goes 35+ the only wonders left to build are hubble/great firewall.

 

[sun8119]

Not that I care about those wonders but since there is nothing better to build I build them Sure I could work science to finish faster but it does not really matter at that point when my games end. And 45 pop at around T250 is nothing special, I have done that many times in DCLs.

Yes, tradition, Freedom is a way to go and better 3 cargos to the cap as early as possible. ToA is rare on deity, HG sometimes possible. Also WLTKD should not be forgotten as well as maritime CSs.

 

[CivAddict2013]

The first thing you need is population, a small capital can never have enough people to work all the mines and specialists you need to get high production. So, to get really good production, make sure to feed food caravans into the capital as soon as possible to get decent pop.

For inspiration, two screenshots from my recent DCL Russia game. That game had a really good production capital, and of course the +1 hammer on strategic also helps a lot. Note that I'm not a top player, so I'm sure a really dedicated spammer would get more out of it, probably mainly by simply having higher pop:

t138, 26 pop, 68 production, new wonder (taj mahal) 10 turns

Spoiler :

t174, 32 pop, production 163 (boosted by GA, hydro plant, chemistry, new wonder (christo redentor) 8 turns

Spoiler :

Hmm, I may try to get a high population capital then. But my question is, how are you able to get so much food so early? I struggle to get a capital pop of 15 by those turns.

 

[joncnunn]

The alternative way of getting a lot of world wonders is allowing the AI to build them for you and then conquer the city yourself.

 

[vanatteveldt]

@CivAddict: Population is the key to getting anything done in Civ, production, science, etc.

In a typical tradition game, growing your capital should be your #1 priority and it should only be interrupted for building 2 or 3 settlers. Some tips (aimed at a tradition game, adjust as needed):

1) work high food tiles, often 2 food is better in the long run than 1 food 3 hammers
2) send caravans (or even better: cargo ships) to your capital asap. First expo should start on a granary so you can build a caravan in your cap right after the last settler and start sending food. You should get three caravans/ships going to your capital asap.
3) after philosophy, civil service should be the next priority to get the +1 food from riverside
4) build granary/water wheel
5) workers should prioritise capital food after luxuries, improve wheat/salt/dear/etc and then irrigate riverside grasslands
6) coastal capital with seafood should get lighthouse asap and work boats when you are done with the rest
7) finish tradition asap to get aquaduct and the capital growth buff.
7) ToA and HG are great, but quite difficult to get at high levels

I guess a normal capital starting build order would be something like: scout / (optional) scout / monument or shrine / settler * 3 / granary / caravan / library. First expo builds granary / library, other expos just library. If you have time in an expo to build a monument without delaying NC, do it.

Of course, try to time it so you start on settlers just after growing, and work as many production tiles as possible. Growing beyond size 3 or 4 is often not needed for settlers as unimproved tiles rarely yield much more than 2 food/hammers, so a size 6 city might not even produce settlers that much faster.

You might have to squeeze an archer in if you are surrounded by empty space, but otherwise the beginning warrior can circle back in time to protect your first settler. Since new cities can defend themselves pretty well against barbs, you don't need to kill the barbarians, just get your settler to the city location.

I don't include any workers since I assume you can steal 3-4 from AI and one CS. If that doesn't work, you might have to squeeze in a worker as well.

Note that scouting is important to steal workers and to get goody huts for culture (faster tradition) and capital pop. Also, if you can do a quest for a CS, do so, especially if it is cultural or mercantile (early on, the +2/+3 food is quite nice).

 

[phillipwyllie]

Play the Huns and re roll until you see at least 3 sheep/cattle/horses in your initial starting spot. It's possible to get 100+ pre industrial hammers with them, I posted a screenshot many moons ago.

 

[Grendeldef]

So how can I get more production on wonders?

Start earlier.

Sure there're things that can be done to increase hammer output but it's a rare occasion when one is on par with production for early/midgame WWs so timing is the key here but in the end it's down to RNG. If an AI really wants a wonder it'll get it with seemingly endless GEs unless it has been passed in tech.

 

[Blatc]

The alternative way of getting a lot of world wonders is allowing the AI to build them for you and then conquer the city yourself.

I've never gone this route, with Cultural victory as the end goal, but am curious to try. Key question: do World Wonders always stay in tact when you capture cities? What about great works?

 

[Grendeldef]

WWs are safe, Guilds use to be catchable but I haven't managed a single one in ages so this might've changed at some point, GWs aren't destroyed but under a siege even the intellectually challenged AI is able to move them around if it has space so the more cities one captures from a single civ the more likely is the city to have GWs.

 

[vanatteveldt]

Don't all national wonders (including guilds) get razed? It would be annoying if you capture a city with a NW in it that you would want to build somewhere else...

 

[Plumfairy]

WWs are safe, Guilds use to be catchable but I haven't managed a single one in ages so this might've changed at some point

You can definitely still capture a guild; I captured one recently. (and promptly scrapped it for cash) But you only see the guild in question if you haven't already built it yourself. If you *do* already have the guild in question, the conquered guild is destroyed w/out you ever even seeing it.

GWs aren't destroyed but under a siege even the intellectually challenged AI is able to move them around if it has space so the more cities one captures from a single civ the more likely is the city to have GWs.

Just to be clear: GWs *are* destroyed if the building holding it is destroyed when the city is captured & you don't have any slots elsewhere in your empire. This happens pretty often if I'm warmongering. Especially with Great Works of Art.

 

[claudiupb]

Don't all national wonders (including guilds) get razed? It would be annoying if you capture a city with a NW in it that you would want to build somewhere else...

Guilds can be sold, but I don't know if you can get a city with them.