How do I make this game fun?

[Bandobras Took]

Civilization is supposed to be a strategy game. This means it's supposed to be fun for those of us who play it with their brains in a functioning state.

But not so functioning as to formulate grammatically correct sentences?

I do not believe that Civ games have required thinking to beat. At most, they've required knowledge of game mechanics, which is not necessarily the same thing. Extended observation of the Civ 4 Strategy Forum over the course of a few years shows that a lot of the players posting there are not so much concerned with thinking as with how fast they can bulb Liberalism and assume they've won after that point. Which is a matter of rote. It's very possible to run these games on what is essentially autopilot at any level of difficulty.

 

[Zorkost]

These kind of threads are just so tedious. If playing a game isn't giving you enjoyment worth the time/money, then don't play the game. There are a lot of games that I don't like that I somehow manage to resist repeatedly playing.

I know that this isn't all that different from how CivFanatics was when Civ V was released, but honestly, sometimes it feels like I get more useful discussion going to Reddit than coming here. It's fine to have criticisms of a game that you want to improve, but if you just fundamentally don't like it, the solution is blindingly obvious.

 

[CraigMak]

But not so functioning as to formulate grammatically correct sentences?

I do not believe that Civ games have required thinking to beat. At most, they've required knowledge of game mechanics, which is not necessarily the same thing. Extended observation of the Civ 4 Strategy Forum over the course of a few years shows that a lot of the players posting there are not so much concerned with thinking as with how fast they can bulb Liberalism and assume they've won after that point. Which is a matter of rote. It's very possible to run these games on what is essentially autopilot at any level of difficulty.

You can pick apart anyone's postings and say they have grammatically incorrect sentences unless they're a straight up English major..... Especially on a forum where people write things in 5 seconds flat.....

You have to think in order to figure out those strategies in the first place. Once you have figured them out you still have to make choices based on your situation. Especially if you are playing against human players instead of the fully incompetent AI. If you beat up on the AI over and over then yes, autopilot all day with no problems once you have done it once or twice.

 

[Roxlimn]

Being that Civ is overwhelmingly played SP, and I would argue, is overwhelmingly designed to be an SP experience, there is some justification in the characterization that it's not a particularly contemplative or thinking experience. Civ 4 strategies have always been pretty rote, and kind of obvious.

About the only thing that wasn't that obvious was the Wonder/GPP production feedback loop.

 

[spider1]

Civilization is supposed to be a strategy game. This means it's supposed to be fun for those of us who play it with their brains in a functioning state. The I just want to have fun games are COD, LOL, WOW, DOTA etc.. All the other mindless drivel out there. Those who have fun by thinking have few choices and Civ is supposed to be one of them.

The gaming industry has been taken over by the appeal to the lowest common denominator, reality TV show mentality. Amuse the mindless masses and make money, screw the people who want well thought out content. We will numb them until they think this crap is entertaining as well.

Each of us paid our money and plays the game the way we like. That's the beauty of games like Civ with all it's options and ways to play and levels of difficulty. That's why there's a mod'ing industry built up around these games. I play games to relax and have fun and enjoy myself. Obviously you have other motives and that's good. I spent 40 years in the IT industry before retiring and have no intention of being serious now.

 

[Johnny Pasho]

Civilization is supposed to be a strategy game. This means it's supposed to be fun for those of us who play it with their brains in a functioning state. The I just want to have fun games are COD, LOL, WOW, DOTA etc.. All the other mindless drivel out there. Those who have fun by thinking have few choices and Civ is supposed to be one of them.

The gaming industry has been taken over by the appeal to the lowest common denominator, reality TV show mentality. Amuse the mindless masses and make money, screw the people who want well thought out content. We will numb them until they think this crap is entertaining as well.

Man, I had to register to reply to this.

Spider1 was merely stating how does he serve the game. He described how it works for him and how fun it is. You can cover your chest with honey and play to the sounds of Brian Eno's Airport Music and I couldn't care less. Spider1 likes his vaporizer. I prefer blunt, but to each his own right ?

Not sure why are your remarks so hateful. There is nothing wrong about getting high and play games. It doesn't transform you into a vegetable. I concur with the opinion, that Civ is very streamlined today and doesn't take as much thinking as other games from the genre (most notably modded Fall from Heaven 2 (Civ4 mod) on multiplayer is a lot more complicated than anything else I have ever played).

Also I don't think you appreciate the depth Dota or LoL can provide. These are exactly the types of games, that get as deep as you want them. I'd elaborate, but I feel you won't listen much.

So, cheers and take it easy.

 

[Roxlimn]

Eh. I've never played Civ that way. Played Civ4 up to Emperor and I spent my time dithering around and making all manner of RP choices. Mostly, I upped it to that level just so the AI could play its part as a foil to my own Civ. I think Civ players playing it on Deity or Immortal are in the distinct minority, and I've always seen the exploits necessary to win on those levels and the massive AI bonuses as a sign that the game really wasn't designed for that.

 

[Johnny Pasho]

Eh. I've never played Civ that way. Played Civ4 up to Emperor and I spent my time dithering around and making all manner of RP choices. Mostly, I upped it to that level just so the AI could play its part as a foil to my own Civ. I think Civ players playing it on Deity or Immortal are in the distinct minority, and I've always seen the exploits necessary to win on those levels and the massive AI bonuses as a sign that the game really wasn't designed for that.

I usually try to get as deep as possible myself and when I hit the learning curve I switch to the internet. Then I try to come up with something new. For example now I'm trying to make a 9-city Harmony win by turn 200 without using prosperity. Which is not the usual way I suppose.

There are plenty options. But after couple of games you can practically set yourself into semisentient autopilot mode, have a drink/smoke/whatever and just see what happens next

 

[Bandobras Took]

You can pick apart anyone's postings and say they have grammatically incorrect sentences unless they're a straight up English major..... Especially on a forum where people write things in 5 seconds flat.....

I only bothered to mention it because you were toting your superior brain power as something for which the Civ games are ostensibly meant.

You have to think in order to figure out those strategies in the first place.

Even that's debatable in the age of the Google Search.

Especially if you are playing against human players instead of the fully incompetent AI. If you beat up on the AI over and over then yes, autopilot all day with no problems once you have done it once or twice.

I apologize; I was speaking about vs AI, but did not explicitly state that. vs. Human games require thinking, but that's not a feature that is unique to TBS games, either.

 

[EricTheGreat12]

I love the Civ series, but in the end this is one of the series biggest problems: the replayability factor. Take for example Civ5: it had a great number of civilizations to choose from and each one had its own strategy. But in the end, after playing every civ in the game you start noticing that these bonuses don't really make each civ feel unique, you only start noticing a difference when there's actually a name difference ; and also, even if you're picky with your history, you won't like the fact that there is an Aztec knight moving around .But seriously, some people will say that there are millions of opportunities in all Civ games; Then how is it possible that every time I play a game of Civ I feel like I'm playing the same exact game that I last played, even if I know that I'm in a totally different situation.

So in the end, Civ is a great series that I love, but it just ends up not offering much for the long run

 

[x2Madda]

-snip-

While I disagree with some of your points, for example the little perks for each civ do change up the playstyle, they are not enforced changes. For example Songhai gets free temples and puppet cities will build temples whereas you cannot buy faith buildings in puppet cities.
Why is that relevant? Well you can gain happiness via faith from temples so you could, as Songhai, have a large puppet empire that isn't costing you much (because puppet cities lolbuildeverythinglol) whereas for most leaders you wouldn't want a large puppet empire. So Songhai can play a powerful culture game in a unique way.
Or you can just see 'free temples' and think nothing more of it. That is the beauty of Civ5, how best to exploit everything but not being a dead fish if you either don't want too or don't think of a way how too.

My second suggestion is to fight other human players. You can add me on Steam for games or just hit the lobby and join games but humans will offer hours of replayablity (give or take your tolerance) and their own playstyles may help you find creative things to do or ways to play.

As a singleplayer game, Civ5 with expansions did well for itself. I enjoyed it more than it's competitors at the time. I don't think Civ:BE will reach that point because of the 'build your own story' theme simply because their is no incentive to pick a 'suboptimal' setup except to challenge yourself or because you don't know any better, or put it another way, if Civ5 had the same setup option that Civ:BE does, would anyone honestly pick some of the perks like -25% tile purchase cost when you have so many better options to pick from?

 

[Manannan]

...The I just want to have fun games are... LOL... DOTA...

While I agree with you that taking the challenge out of Civ is like taking the shark out of Jaws I just want to point out that LoL and Dota are more the "I just want to be abused by strangers on the internet" games.

 

[Roxlimn]

While I disagree with some of your points, for example the little perks for each civ do change up the playstyle, they are not enforced changes. For example Songhai gets free temples and puppet cities will build temples whereas you cannot buy faith buildings in puppet cities.
Why is that relevant? Well you can gain happiness via faith from temples so you could, as Songhai, have a large puppet empire that isn't costing you much (because puppet cities lolbuildeverythinglol) whereas for most leaders you wouldn't want a large puppet empire. So Songhai can play a powerful culture game in a unique way.
Or you can just see 'free temples' and think nothing more of it. That is the beauty of Civ5, how best to exploit everything but not being a dead fish if you either don't want too or don't think of a way how too.

My second suggestion is to fight other human players. You can add me on Steam for games or just hit the lobby and join games but humans will offer hours of replayablity (give or take your tolerance) and their own playstyles may help you find creative things to do or ways to play.

As a singleplayer game, Civ5 with expansions did well for itself. I enjoyed it more than it's competitors at the time. I don't think Civ:BE will reach that point because of the 'build your own story' theme simply because their is no incentive to pick a 'suboptimal' setup except to challenge yourself or because you don't know any better, or put it another way, if Civ5 had the same setup option that Civ:BE does, would anyone honestly pick some of the perks like -25% tile purchase cost when you have so many better options to pick from?

I would. Back in the day, all the Civs were literally, absolutely, and completely identical except for their faction color. We're talking Zulus with Phalanxes and Legions taking over the Known World.


The incentive to picking something "suboptimal" is that it plays differently and offers a different experience. That's where Civ has traditionally gotten its longevity, and I feel that many Civ players today have lost sight of that.

Polystralia with Artist Colonists may be stronger, but I guarantee that KP with Refugess is a profoundly different game, especially if you pick different primary Virtue paths for each game.

 

[Kutuzov]

As a singleplayer game, Civ5 with expansions did well for itself. I enjoyed it more than it's competitors at the time. I don't think Civ:BE will reach that point because of the 'build your own story' theme simply because their is no incentive to pick a 'suboptimal' setup except to challenge yourself or because you don't know any better, or put it another way, if Civ5 had the same setup option that Civ:BE does, would anyone honestly pick some of the perks like -25% tile purchase cost when you have so many better options to pick from?

Yup, I would and DO too. I'm not interested in choosing the optimal strategy in each instance and going for the win in the most efficient manner possible every time I play. Trust me, that REALLY does not float my boat. Plus I don't think there's anything wrong with playing the game in the 'max-power' way either. I've been 'building my own story' with Civ BE as well and it's working out fine by me

I would imagine that the max-power players are in the majority on these boards simple because these boards are an excellent place for them to share their strategies with other players and to cut out a large part of the 'messy' learning curve aspect of playing a new game. For me, ascending the learning curve in my own good time really is one of the best parts of any game. I think there are a LOT of people who play their games like me too.

 

[bladex]

play with the following mods

BoogieMan's AI Mod (makes aliens a little harder and helps ai bit but ai is still stupid)
Colorful Tech Web (colors the tech web in so you can see what your doing essential mod)
Later Affinity Victory (you need lvl 18 to build planet wonders. increases game play time)
Leader Afinity Randomizer (tired of always playing with alien loving AI this changes that)
User Interface Tweaks (changes and adds lots to the UI essential mod)

than mess with the victory conditions in GlobalDefines.xml to whatever suits you.

 

[manu-fan]

You should play focusing on Domination. Then you'll always have something to do, and won't be bored hitting next turn for turns on end.

That's sort of what I've decided to do now, start going for domination all the time.

 

[bladex]

^ than you'll want THIS MOD

 

[Aedn]

Basically you can just shelve the game until firaxes gets around to fixing some of the major flaws, and improving the game, or waiting on mods to come out to address issues.

 

[EricTheGreat12]

My second suggestion is to fight other human players. You can add me on Steam for games or just hit the lobby and join games but humans will offer hours of replayablity (give or take your tolerance) and their own playstyles may help you find creative things to do or ways to play.

I have the Mac App Store version

 

[Hail]

on-topic:
you cannot. currently civ:be has little replay value, unless the player consciously chooses to handicap himself.


in general:
sp is all about the experience in the player's head. mp is a completely different beast. a mp game must be balanced. not so for sp.

if Firaxis did care about the community, they should sell civ in two flavors: sp and mp. not that sp will not have multiplayer, but in sp's multiplayer balance takes a backseat to balance.

on a sidenote: I really enjoyed civ5 on release. it was fun!