How do you beat Babylonian Bowmen on a hill in a city?

Bast

Bast

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Please! I've driven myself almost insane trying to take Babylon. I have Greek Phalanx - most useless UU ever if you ask me, and the Bowmen with strength 3 eats them for breakfast, lunch and dinner. :lol:

Help!

No horses. But I have Iron. Tried Swordsmen too. They fail.
 
Bast said:
Please! I've driven myself almost insane trying to take Babylon. I have Greek Phalanx - most useless UU ever if you ask me, and the Bowmen with strength 3 eats them for breakfast, lunch and dinner. :lol:

Help!

No horses. But I have Iron. Tried Swordsmen too. They fail.
Click to expand...

Nay, greeks UU are nice - use knights :)
 
Diamondeye said:
Nay, greeks UU are nice - use knights :)
Click to expand...

I don't have horses!! I'm playing on a Lakes map. In fact, I didn't have Copper either. Had to rely on Iron to get the Phalanxes.

No, phalanxes are crap because the AI defends with archers and they're no use against them, let alone Bowmen.

Apparently the AI defends with melee units on higher difficulties? Then, they might be some use. But I play Noble and Phalanxes have no chance against archers.
 
Catas. Atleast the Babylonian UU is doing what it is supposed to do- holding off an early rush.
 
Babylon holds off early rushes very well, as does Sitting Bull. Totem Pole + Protective + barracks + Dog Soldiers. His archers are City Garrison 3 automatically if he has Totem Poles, and dog soldiers are stronger than axeman 1v1..
 
Bast said:
I don't have horses!! I'm playing on a Lakes map. In fact, I didn't have Copper either. Had to rely on Iron to get the Phalanxes.
Click to expand...
Most likely the problem was waiting too much. Phalanxes are the carbon copy of the vanilla axemen: they can't be countered by chariots. Of course if you wait too much the AI piles archers ( in the babylonian case is even worse ) and it happens exactly the same as with a late axe rush: they get to a city only to see 5/6 CG I/II archers with 60% of cultural defence ( and probably in the top of a hill :p ). And what you can do in those circunstances? Tech to Construction and get those big phants and those stone-throwers with wheels...
 
I cant believe no one has suggested it: plunder.

Destroy every improvement in the city radius and park a unit on each special resource. Sometimes the effort required to take a city simply isn't worth the payoff. If this is his only city, let him sit there and rot. If it's not, move on and conquer the rest of his cities. Even if you can't beat him now, doing this will put him so far behind that you'll have a serious tech advantage that you can use to take the city at a later date after he's redeveloped the area.
 
an unpromoted fortified bowmen on a hill vs a maceman

3*2.75 = 8.25 str vs 8 str

Lmao those guys are at even odds vs Prats and Maceman :S

Note the bowmen is getting 50% from Natural City Garrison, 50% vs Melee, 25% From Fortifying, 25% From terrain Defense (hill) and 25% From Natural hill bonus.

And that still doesn't include 1st first strikes, city Garrison promotions and Cultural Defense, I think you're better off attacking them with mounted units like Horse Archers, even Longbows because that extra 50% vs Melee weakens you're City raiders quite alot.
 
Thanks guys. Catapults did the trick first in reducing the cultural defense and then really weakening the bowmen.

Hammurabi is gone. Thank God, I thought he'll never go.

I've learnt an important lesson. If playing Greeks MUST get to Construction asap after Bronze Working.
 
travathian said:
I cant believe no one has suggested it: plunder.

Destroy every improvement in the city radius and park a unit on each special resource. Sometimes the effort required to take a city simply isn't worth the payoff. If this is his only city, let him sit there and rot. If it's not, move on and conquer the rest of his cities. Even if you can't beat him now, doing this will put him so far behind that you'll have a serious tech advantage that you can use to take the city at a later date after he's redeveloped the area.
Click to expand...

I did that btw and it did weaken him but by the end, guess what, he had 2 techs I didn't have but I also had a lot of techs he didn't have.

Hammurabi is one very fine leader imo. It was probably a good idea to take him out early.
 
A bit of an anecdote about this game.

Started it with Pericles. I've tried him before but just to experiment and didn't really play a game into the AD. This was to be my first serious game with him.

Anyway, plan was for an early war and take out a near neighbour so I'll have more land and resources than others. But then after that war to play a builders' game with his traits.

Well, guess who were my neighbours? Ragnar, Hannibal and Hammurabi. Nice.

Anyway, didn't know who to go for but Hammurabi presented himself because he settled way close to me and threatened to cut off my second city. This was unacceptable.

And that's how I got into this long war which I planned to end before AD years. Guess when it ended? In the 1300's. God help us.

Athens had 3 Ivory resources around it. At the very beginning, plan was let's grab the Statue of Zeus so that the enemy is held back for the rest of the game. I didn't get it.

But I have got Pyramids, Great Wall(!! - I had stone) Shwedagon Paya and Parthenon (rushed) and hopefully will get Great Library (next rush with next Great Enginner). That's a nice collection.

But now I also have bad relations with most leaders because I refused to help them in their wars (there's been a lot of wars). Hell, it took me thousands of years to get rid of Hammurabi and they want me to help them.

Now Ragnar's declared war on me. I don't consider this a threat. He'll go away soon but I won't counter-attack either.

I really need to get a tech advantage and get back up in the points race. Hopefully the Great Library + Representation + Free religion will help.

Wish me luck. :)
 
Cover and Drill on Crossbows. They start at 6, don't give up the bonus because they aren't Melee units and the cover counters the inherent Hill bonus. Then you still have to overcome the City and archer's bonus on hills, as well as any CG. If these total less than 100%, you're in business...
 
Play Persian, use immortals (just kidding)
 
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