How do you guys deal with reputation?

[garric]

How do you people do it? I'm talking about you monarchy+ players. See, I have a big problem. Treaties break too easily and ruin the rest of your game forever. Sometimes you don't know a treaty is broken for a while until it's too late in the game to reload. For example: In my early game, I declared war on the Russians and allied with the Romans.

I defeated Russia and went for a peace treaty. Surprize! I just broke a MA with Rome. About 20 turns later (That's when I realized it.) when I really needed another Civ to help me against another, I can't, no matter what, unless I give that civ everything I have and then some. Even though we were both attacking the same country.

Also, things like enemies pillaging roads to luxuries break treaties with friendly Civs. Another example is that since I realized that I couldn't win VS A.Is in the tech race, I decided to focus purely on gold, so I became the richest civ getting around 300+ gold a turn and bought all of my techs. I had a MPP with another civ that declared ware against a civ I was paying with 80 GPT, so I had to declare war on them. Well, now I'm screwed since that breaks a treaty, and I can't trade GPT for techs, and it's too late in the game to go back to building libraries and everything.

I'm now too paranoid thinking about "If I do X, will this break treaty Y, and ruin any chance of a decent game happening?".

Can someone help me out?

 

[Tomoyo]

Don't sign things you can't/won't fulfill. That's how I do it.

EDIT: Especially not MPPs.

 

[NextGEN]

MPPs? What are MPPs?

 

[garric]

MPP= mutual protection pact.

I CAN fulfil them, that's the point of the post. Stupid things that I forget/can't control happen and screw them up. Like an enemy attacks me and then cuts off the road to my spices I was trading to someone else, or I have to declare war to an enemy to whom I'm trading with because of a MPP with another country.

 

[Tomoyo]

I should have said "Don't sign things that make you not fulfill stuff". MPPs are the worst, most desperate agreement and should almost never be used.

 

[NextGEN]

what tech is needed for MPPs?

 

[Tomoyo]

Nationalism.

 

[Turner]

Myself, I never sign RoPs, never sign MPPs. It's always MAs, and hope that I can handle it. Usually, I dogpile the AI, so I'm not the one breaking the treaty. As for trades, those are the ones that can screw me up. So just be careful of what you're doing. Trade is the only place your rep can get trashed outside your control.

 

[SJ Frank]

It comes down to somethings that you learn through experience:

1) When you sign a MA, plan to stay in the war for its whole 20 turns, and adjust your war tactics accordingly.

2) Avoid trading your hard goods(lux, iron, horse, etc) to the AI before Astronomy. Astronomy opens up sea tiles to shipping, making trade routes much safer.

3) Avoid MPPs when possible. In most cases, alliances can function just as well as MPPs. They just cost a little more.

4) Be wary of trading hard goods with a dying civ.

 

[oilfan]

This is why when I attack someone, or I attack them, unless I know I can finish them off quickly, I almost never sign even a MA; I just fight the war myself. It is a pain when later in the game non of the other civs will not deal with you, especially when it is not your fault.

 

[Rohili]

I agree, its very difficult maintaining a clean reputation. In all my games I have always broke many treaties and of course, I had to build the UN just so that my enemies cannot build it and hold an election.

 

[rysingsun]

all of the above are good points. mutual protection pacts however put the others to shame for "great ways to trash your reputation". they should normally be used only when you are desparate. in theory a single mpp can result in 6 unwanted wars AND 6 reputation hits. usually i find that the ai asks for mpps when they are already at war and their own reputations are hurting. in such a situation you can expect them to get you into wars you dont want.

take heart though. one or two rep hits during the mid game is usually not a fatal error. i certainly wouldnt give up a game over it. and even the best players occasionally have unintended rep hits.

 

[Rohili]

take heart though. one or two rep hits during the mid game is usually not a fatal error. i certainly wouldnt give up a game over it. and even the best players occasionally have unintended rep hits.

Well having a bad reputation does not necessarily mean you lose the game. It just means that it would be extremely difficult to win through diplomacy and the AI are less willing to trade/sign contracts with you. Seriously there's no need to quit over it, no matter how bad it is.

 

[rysingsun]

It just means that it would be extremely difficult to win through diplomacy ...

thats a good point i overlooked. although i never turn off the diplomatic victory condition i also never attempt to win through the united nations. i leave the victory condition on to sort of give me a little time-pressure in the game.

but there are those who strive specifically for a diplomatic win and for them an accidental reputation hit is a much more serious matter that i overlooked.

incidentally one of my strategies on the reputation front is encouraging the ai to trash their own reputations. when i go to war i love bribing the ai into alliances knowing full well that it will hurt their reputations much of the time. indeed if you cannot stop an ai from completing the U.N. one way to keep them from holding elections is to bribe them into multiple wars. its sleazy i know but what are you going to do?

 

[Roxlimn]

I look on MPPs, military alliances, and even all trading deals like anything else in the game: something to help me win. The caveat is that reputation is involved, so I usually try to make things so that I don't need to break anything. Durations on deals, alliances, and any other ongoing such things should always be considered before you entertain agreements with other civs.

On MPPs: MPPs are very tricky things to be messing with. The thing with MPPs to remember is that they will usually involve declaring war on a civ not involved in the MPP, so be prepared for something like that if you sign an MPP. Usually, you use an MPP to arrange a war. This can involve dragging a stronger civ into a war to defend you or even a matched civ to diffuse attacks from a more powerful civ. You can also incite war with a target civ in your MPP to increase the value of a trade commodity, weaken the civ in the MPP or outside it, or to solidify civ alliegances in a continent (so that you'll only need to war with one civ later on). Basically, MPPs are about initiating war with everyone outside the one other civ you have in the MPP, so think of it that way and you should not have much trouble.

Military Alliances are, IMO, similar to Mobilization - they lock you in War mode barring a price or a requirement. Usually, it's advisable to initiate MAs all at the same time, or not at all. Violating an MA for a Peace Treaty is almost never worth the rep hit. Better to just wait out the last few turns.

GPT deals and resource or luxury deals are especially tricky because you need to ensure that you can deliver if you want to avoid a rep hit. Sea and Ocean trading are almost always preferrable to land routes, because they can't be broken, and multiple Harbors are likewise, so prevent blockades.

I try not to pay GPT deals. Civs almost always value a lump sum amount greater than a GPT amount, though I will sometimes make multiple large sum gpt transfer deals to arrange for a deal I couldn't afford otherwise. You should usually only do so if you do not forsee radical warfare changes in the following 20 turns, or if you can weasel out of agreements anyway.

You can also improve your rep. Civs view you better with every conclusion of a deal so you should almost always make deals with civs you can afford to. Right of Passage deals that don't really benefit the other civ are great. Balance of power deals are great, too. I try to trade multiple luxury deals with weaker civs to prop them up against larger civs, while also improving my rep with them, too. Particularly weak civs, I even give resources for nothing, just for the rep improvement.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

I dont think you can rebuild your reputation. Once gone never back. Or maybe I've never been kind enough to the AIs... If that's what you mean by "Improving reputation", of course. If not, I think rep is a boolean, 1 or 0. It's attitude you can improve...

 

[Roxlimn]

It isn't true. I was once able to wipe out the rep hit of a "sneak attack" after many favorable deals. Although I didn't have a RoP with the civ at the time, apparently, if you don't have an embassy and declare war with a civ while you have units in his territory, it's considered a "sneak attack." Imagine that.

Well, after word got around, no one would so much as look at a RoP agreement sideways while I was around. After an age of being nice, people started considering it, and eventually some civs didn't mention it anymore, particularly if they were friendly attitude or better.

The thing that convinces me was the ever decreasing costs of the RoP until it was just RoP for RoP.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

The RoP reputation is another boolean than the trade reputation. You cant repair this one neither, but there isn't any connection between the two of them.
RoP costs depend on your size compared to the AI.

 

[tR1cKy]

I try to keep my reputation clean as long as i can, then drop it when it's no more an issue if it gets trashed. Having a rep clean may help a lot in taking advantages over the AS.

Say that a civ is really furious at you, maybe because you had war and razed 5+ cities, but you still have your reputation. You may buy a tech for luxuries and gpt, then lure the civ into declaring war on you (a failed espionage attempt can do wonders!). Or, you can buy a tech for gpt and resources from an once powerful and advanced civ that is now disappearing. You sign the deal, then 2 turn after the civ is destroyed, and you no more have to pay those 100+ gpt...

 

[island007]

I keep my rep clean; however the attitudes are normally cautious to furious.
I never sign MPPs or ROPs. I rarely trade hard goods to my future enemies, and every other civ is a future enemy. If I need Luxs from a civ I would rather trade a tech they don't have for it than LUX for LUX. This is just until I acquire my own source of the LUX anyway.

At some point in the end game I may trash my rep to maintain or attain a comparative advantage to end the game.