How do you pronounce 'xenophobic'?

[sophie]

...what?
Why would you have a letter which you cannot pronounce o_O?

Like many things in English: orthography is wack, yo.

x in non-initial position: /ks/ as in ax or klaxon or execute.

x in initial position: /z/: as in xenophobic or xerox (/ˈziːɹ.ɑks/)

English phonotactics do not allow for word-initial /ks/, hence cardgame's confusion about how such a sound would be possible. The same is true for word-initial /ps/. In loan words with word-initial ps, English defaults to /s/, as in psychology: /saɪˈkɑlədʒi/. Both word initial /ps/ and /ks/ are valid in other languages like German or Ancient Greek.

 

[Lexicus]

It's really difficult to pronounce it "ks" in the initial position without voicing a vowel first.

 

[sophie]

It's really difficult to pronounce it "ks" in the initial position without voicing a vowel first.

*for English in word-initial position; we have no problem rendering the sound in non-word-initial constructions, e.g. "talks" or "walks" or "box".

Such a consonant cluster (word-initial /ks) is not possible according to English phonotactics, so English has different conventions for loan-words which call for word-initial /ks/

 

[Lexicus]

For people used to speaking English, you mean? I seem to have a hard time making my mouth do it in a physical sense, I could understand if this is because I only speak English. Are there other languages with lots of words where the "ks" is used at the beginning of words?

 

[sophie]

For people used to speaking English, you mean? I seem to have a hard time making my mouth do it in a physical sense, I could understand if this is because I only speak English. Are there other languages with lots of words where the "ks" is used at the beginning of words?

For people speaking English, yes. Psycho-linguistically, it becomes virtually impossible to pronounce sounds not in your native-language inventory if you haven't learned them past a certain age (~10-11 iirc) - at least at a native-speaker level anyway. This is why English speakers have so much trouble with: the Spanish rolled r (/r/), the French u (/y/), the German r (/ʀ/), the German ö (/ø/), or the Chinese tone system. This is also why many English-learners have so much trouble getting the American r (/ɹ/) sound right. It's not a sound which is at all common, and requires a tongue shape that is hard to reproduce if you didn't learn it as a kid.

However, there are plenty of languages which do allow for word-initial /ks/. Xenophobia's original language, Ancient Greek would be one-such example:

ξεῖνος - /ksé.nos/
Ξέρξης - /ksérk.sɛːs/

Word initial /ps/ is another example. English words with word-initial /ps/ were all inherited from Greek which are represented by the letter psi (ψ), where psi was always rendered /ps/. Some languages (e.g. French and German) have retained this rendering.

ψῡχή = /psyː.kʰɛ̌ː/ -> Lat: psychologia = /psy.ko.lo.gi:.a/ -> Fr.: psychologie = /psi.kɔ.lɔ.ʒi/ -> Ger. Psychologie /psyː.ço.loˈɡiː/

etc.

 

[uppi]

Are there other languages with lots of words where the "ks" is used at the beginning of words?

It's not so much about the amount of words. For example, I think German and English have about the same number of words starting with X, mostly from the same Greek origin. German speakers are just expected to learn that extra sound just for those few instances.

The reason is probably that in the German language it is expected that spelling and pronunciation are at least to some degree in sync, while no effort is spent on that in English at all. So it is more natural for English speakers to assimilate a word with native sounds, while German speakers will be reminded of the original pronunciation by the spelling. That doesn't mean that this doesn't happen in German as well. For example, words based on Greek words that start with the Greek letter Χ (Chi, not to be confused with Ξ) are often pronounced as if they were starting with Sch or K (depending on the region) instead of the Ch sound that is still supposed to be standard German.

 

[Lexicus]

I've been trying to say "kserkses" (Xerxes) without enunciating a vowel sound before the X and I think I can just about do it now.

 

[sophie]

I've been trying to say "kserkses" (Xerxes) without enunciating a vowel sound before the X and I think I can just about do it now.

Next you can try the tl consonant cluster /tɬ/ that's really common in the Aztec language. As in: Tlaxcallan /t͡ɬaʃˈkal.laːn/ or coyotl /ˈkojoːtɬ/ or Tenochtitlan /te.noːt͡ʃ.ˈtí.t͡ɬan/ or chilpoctli /t͡ʃiːl.poːktɬi/

It's a really hard one to get the hang of. Hell, even /tl/ (without the lateral fricative /ɬ/) is a hard one for English speakers, hence the occasional rendering of Chipotle as /tʃɪˈpoʊl.teɪ/. Usually English speakers navigate the /tl/ consonant cluster dilemma by turning the t into a glottal stop /ʔ/, thus pronouncing Chipotle as /tʃɪˈpoʊʔ.leɪ/. That's how I pronounce it (in English).

 

[warpus]

The reason is probably that in the German language it is expected that spelling and pronunciation are at least to some degree in sync

Same in Polish. When we assimilate words from other languages, the spelling changes to accommodate the Polish alphabet and pronunciation.

i.e. bekon - bacon, biznes - business, bumerang - boomerang, klaun - clown, szeryf - sheriff, etc.

It's very easy to figure out how to pronounce something in Polish - just sound out each individual letter, combine the sounds, and there you go. The only thing in your way are compound sounds like sz, cz, etc. but those are easy to remember as well. The hardest part is trying to sound out some of those weird sounds we have that don't exist in other languages.

 

[cardgame]

...what?
Why would you have a letter which you cannot pronounce o_O?

Because, you know, English.

 

[Broken_Erika]

I'm kinda surprised no one has mentioned "Xenforobic" yet.

 

[Takhisis]

You mentioned the accursed software! May your knee take arrows, may the Fire Nation attack you, may you run out of milk and Oreos, may your chainsaw run out of gas.

 

[Synobun]

[..] may you run out of milk and Oreos...

Yes please.

 

[Takhisis]

It's ‘milk and’. If you can live without milk then get a different avatar.

 

[Synobun]

It's ‘milk and’. If you can live without milk then get a different avatar.

Cats shouldn't drink milk, ya dingus.

 

[Quintillus]

ZEENO. Never would have thought of ZENNO... and didn't realize it was popular in the UK, either.

But as importantly, this thread reminded me of how long it's been since I've seen a downtown post... and he appears to have been away from CFC for quite awhile. Too bad; he was one of the classic posters and is missed. Always funny how someone leaves, often gradually, and you don't always realize it till seeing one of their posts or a mention of them, and then you can't help but be curious what they are up to.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

For people used to speaking English, you mean? I seem to have a hard time making my mouth do it in a physical sense, I could understand if this is because I only speak English. Are there other languages with lots of words where the "ks" is used at the beginning of words?

Just say "Cassandra" quickly, you'll manage it

 

[Kyriakos]

Other: Ξεnoφobic

 

[Xen]

Why don't people like @Xen?

I HAVE BEEN SUMMONED FROM THE DEPTHS OF MY SLUMBER. FEAR THE PATHS UPON WHICH I TREAD, MORTALS.

As far as the question of pronunciation goes, I pronounce it Z+short e (like the word "bet")+n. Those sounds will be more or less what can be taken from the American English heard on TV. I dislike hearing a long e sound when the word is pronounced, but thats mostly due to knowing how English tends to butcher ancient Greek.

 

[Kyriakos]

I've been trying to say "kserkses" (Xerxes) without enunciating a vowel sound before the X and I think I can just about do it now.

Let me guess: you must be...
english