How does dynamic civ naming work?

Two questions. First does dynamic civ naming not work on Snail difficulty? In three games which I have tried it all nations get stuck at Empire, and never reach great, kingdom, or republic status.

It doesn't work well in 1.73, I'm aware of that. In 1.74, it works perfectly.

Second you said that most of your changes were optional, but I don't see where to undo your civics changes. Specifically the removal of communism, as I don't agree at all with your reasoning here since I think it ignores a number of factors, and hardly proves that it simply "doesn't work".

Civic changes are part of Better RoM. Disable that, and you will have the normal RoM civics again. Everything is optional. ;)


For example it being implemented in non industrialized societies (against the intentions of Marx), prevented from spreading (a key factor in both Marx and Lenin's theory) and with the entire might of the established world order stacked up in opposition to it. Before Stalin rose to power, and especially in 1918-1919 it was hardly "inconceivable" that communism could be a valid form of government (there was a real fear across the world that it a world communist revolution was not only possible but eminent, as evident by countless editorials and papers written at the time), and it took a considerable effort by foreign and internal powers which further destabilized post revolution Russia and led to Stalin's rise to power within the party, the end of the USSR's support for world revolution, and the establishment of a strong permanent dictatorship. During this time Leon Trotsky (easily the second most important Bolshevik figure after Lenin), was exiled, and eventually murdered. A similar series of events unfolded in Communist China, and then Cuba.

Sure, but that Communism was Communism as a form of economy, which is still in AND, just called "Marxism". Communism as a government,.

""Pure communism" in the Marxian sense refers to a classless, stateless and oppression-free society where decisions on what to produce and what policies to pursue are made democratically, allowing every member of society to participate in the decision-making process in both the political and economic spheres of life."


Basically, controlled anarchy. It's the anti-thesis of any form of government as we understand government today. But Communism, the government, can never work due to a number well known factors. Corruption, Greed, Laziness, and human error ensure that it can never take place. Therefore, it has no place in the government civics.

So I'm sorry but to compare them to fascism, whose goal was never equality is absurd except maybe that they were both embattled (by internal and external forces) in their time which obviously led to some similarities. To lump them together is a crime considering oh I don't know... perhaps the fact that Fascism rose universally out of an opposition to the idea of communism (Franco, Hitler, Chiang Kai-shek, Hideki Tojo, Mussolini any of these Fascists and their anti communist rhetoric ring a bell?)

You completely mis-construed what I meant. All "Communist" governments in the present or past, have really been Fascism in disguise.

The civic should be included in some form, obviously the final stage of Communism as described by Lenin is impossible to model in this game except perhaps as a modified victory condition (I can dream ;). However pre-Stalin Soviet or Maoist Chinese state communism should be represented somehow I think since it is different enough and key to balancing Marxism with its severe penalties to relations with non communist countries, increased rebelliousness and many of the other penalties already found in Civ IV. As to who would choose state communism.. I don't know maybe someone trying to make it work despite all of the difficulties that plagued it in real life as well? It isn't as if it is hard to create a mighty empire, colonize and exploit the entire world, and win then win the game with brute force/economic/scientific superiority Euro/American style as it is even on the hardest difficulty with your mod. I prefer to play my civ's according to my own morality, trying to abstain from all of the buildings/actions which while making the game easier do not fit and try to create at the end of a 3,000 turn Gigantic epic of a game my "perfect world" after all it is a game and why shouldn't I be able to play out my fantasy in it...

The future civics represent this well. I think "Paradise" is what you are referring to. ;)

But I digress, it is not my mod and who am I to tell you how to do it.

Nonsense. User feedback is part of what makes AND so great.

I like that you at least include Marxism, however I would also like communism as a form of government with all of its penalties as playing as the hand behind the curtain or however you see the user in Civilization the difficulties that brings with it is key to playing that role. So basically if you aren't going to include it how can I undo your civic changes as I don't play with revolutions currently anyway (as I find it creates too many problems for the AI on gigantic map size since they can't expand properly).

Quite easily. In the CIV4CivicInfos.xml, you will see the Communist civic still there, but commented out with "<!--" and "-->" XML comments. Delete those, and start a new game, and communism will be back. ;)
 
Thank you for your response, and that solves my problem. But since I play on snail with gigantic maps I'm real hesitant about playing the beta as a game ending bug after 12+ hours of playtime is more than a little frustrating haha, it was working fine for me on a Marathon game (dynamic civ names) and only broke when I went to snail is why I asked.

I still disagree with your saying that these communist states are fascist states in disguise, I mean the similarities in dictatorship and state control are there but it is such a revisionist argument which I think really has no place in a reality where millions of people all over the world (in Spain and later in WWII) fought and died over the very real difference in ideologies between the two. You can look through the lens of history and say "oh well Stalin did all these horrible things, restricted freedoms, and in the end still set up a corrupt state where class was merely supplanted by bureaucracy and the corruption within", but the difference was in how its defenders in the citizenry and government saw their government. They were striving for a Marxist vision of society while Fascists were trying to prevent that. Even at their strongest points of similarities, even during the era of cooperation with Molotov-Ribbentrop they were polar opposites because of their aims.

I'm not arguing for a Marxist form of "pure communism" to be in your mod as you said you could say that could be modeled through "paradise", simply some type of modeling to represent a mishmash of the various lesser forms of state communism (Soviet republics which did exist in Russia prior to the civil war and Stalin would be my personal choice for a model, but I'd even prefer the flawed Stalinist/Maoist dictatorship) which did exist, and were distinct enough from other form of governments to at least deserve recognition for role playing purposes. Even if you make them much like Fascism, which they really already were in game in terms of non communist or non fascist nations disapproving they need to be separate to model the ideological struggle between the two, so that you can have Fascist and Communist governments at odds with each other as I'm sure you will agree is realistic and absolutely key to playing oh say a historical Lenin versus oh.. Franco lets say. If you ever change your mind and decide to re implement it in some form I'd definitely help beta test that feature!

Until then, thanks for the great mod (which I literally could not play without) and for explaining to me how to do it myself for the time being.
 
I still disagree with your saying that these communist states are fascist states in disguise, I mean the similarities in dictatorship and state control are there but it is such a revisionist argument which I think really has no place in a reality where millions of people all over the world [...]

argh... not this again. ok, in this game we have different civic categories and fashism is not in the economic branch. so you must understand the word 'fashism' independently of the economy it runs. and that the difference between communism, which runs a left economy (planed & state owned) and fascism which is right oriented. but in case of government both are a authoritarian dictatorships (no legitimation).

that said i apply to change the name of the "Fascism" civic into "Dictatorship" as there is broad consensus that Hitler and Stalin were both dictators.
 
I'd counter that the difference between Despotism, and Fascist and Communist dictatorship is very much one of legitimating ideologies, and therefore fitting to deserve distinction in a tree which deals with the legitimation of Government. Fascism is an appeal to ethnocentrism, communism is an appeal to egalitarianism, and despotism is an appeal to I guess the greatness of the leader. Despotism is rare in the modern era of nationalism, while communist and fascist dictatorships have legitimated themselves on the basis of their opposing ideologies. You could simply have dictatorship in addition to despotism and remove both fascism and communism, but why would you want to do that? Legitimating ideologies are still legitimation, and were fairly effective as you can see looking at the history of the 20th century.
 
don't we have ideology civics in AND? i don't object to put communism, fascism, social darwinism/racism into these civics.

but as you said - the form of government in fascist, communist states was dictatorship. just the ideology differed. so there we agree.
 
Then how is Monarchy different enough to have its own slot? I thought we were talking about the legitimation not the form of government. Separating the two as this mod does leaves for more interesting options, for example you can have a senate or president with democracy as its legitimation, but you could also have a parliament legitimated by a monarchy. If anything dictatorship should be included in that tree, with fascism/communism/monarchy/republic/democracy remaining in the legitimation tree (though obviously you should be restricted with what forms of government you can take legitimating it through republic/democracy).

Legitimation and ideology are also very different and should be separated (as they are), though an ideology can also be a legitimation (the important thing to remember being that it doesn't necessarily have to be).
 
in germany we distinguish between 3 general forms of state: monarchy, republic and dictatorship. the dictatorship is defined by the fact that is has no accepted legitimation while monarchy can be legitimated by law of succession or a vote. ideology can hardly be considered a legitimation - no one can legitimate his rule by himself; that's not how it works.

further we distinguish between government systems (parliamentarian republic, presidential republic, one party republic, constitutional monarchy, ...) and finnaly power form (democracy, aristocracy, plutocracy, every-other-cracy, ...).
 
I don't see why being German has anything to do it personally, Karl Marx and Max Weber were both German, and I'm just talking about a concept, Ideological Legitimation that both were familiar with (and that goes for modern German sociologists as well). Those are all different types of distributing power, but legitimation is more broad.

Going through the list of original forms of legitimation represented game, the legitimation being I think what most of us think of really when we say Government:

A democracy gains its legitimation through its vote for representatives (ie a Democratic presidency, or Democratic Senate as modeled in game).

Republic through the involvement of the people (which may include representative democracy but not necessarily)

Federal is legitimated through the union of a multitude of individual states under one national government.

Chiefdom is legitimated by the leader's personal prowess or exhibition of their right to rule.


Despotism is legitimated by the belief that the leader is destined to lead with absolute authority.

Monarchy through a law of succession

Fascism gets its legitmation through ethnocentrism, or perhaps in game this could be represented simply as extreme nationalism (I'm curious why you don't see a distinction between this and despotism? National Socialism in Germany was not predicated merely on the magnificence of Adolph Hitler)

Communism gets its legitimation through a claim of egalitarianism. This could mean you setup a Communist Junta which is probably most accurate at representing the most common modern communist state, or a communist parliament/president etc. which would more accurately represent the later years of the USSR.


I'm not clear where we are not agreeing, unless you don't see the difference between Fascism/Communism/Despotism/Dictatorship, and in that case I'd advise you to do just one thing, look at the propaganda put out by every country in the 20th century and you will see what I mean by legitimation. When you do this you can see how the legitimation of Nazi Germany wasn't merely the idea of Adolph Hitler's right to rule, or Hideki Tojo/Franco's right to rule in their countries, or Stalin's right to rule, the propaganda speaks to the legitimation claimed by those governments. The US governments own propaganda centers around an idea of democracy, and a government of the people. This really is a big difference in the differences between governments looking back through history, and the way it is modeled in game I think it is only fitting to have these different categories (as were originally developed, I imagine for this reason).
 
sorry, but the despotism has no legitimation. the leader is just the leader because he is able to keep the power... until someone else is powerful enough to take over.

very same principle with any other dictatorship. stalin was in power because he was strong enough to secure it after lenins death. that's the end of his legitimation. well, of course after all things were settled he was elected by the communist party of the soviet union formally as leader.

a personal cult about a leader is no way a legitimation. i don't understand how this can be mixed up. and by the way there was as much a personal cult about stalin as there was about hitler. but glorification is no way a legitimation.

formally a legitimation is derived form an accepted law - thats what's the words origin is anyway. if the law says the leader is elected by the people then his leadership is legitimate if he won the election. if the law says the rightful leader is defined by the right of succession then a monarch is a legitimate leader. but if you putsch yourself to power you break the existing law and have no kind of legitimation (not by the law). thus you become a dictator.

though hitler won a election for the chancellor first he had to break laws to gain all the power and establish his leadership, a political coup. same case for general franco, lenin, stalin and a lot of other dictators. and correctly the soviet leaders that followed stalin are not view as dictators as they obtained their power by the soviet law and much less by coup.

I'm not clear where we are not agreeing, unless you don't see the difference between Fascism/Communism/Despotism/Dictatorship, and in that case I'd advise you to do just one thing, look at the propaganda put out by every country in the 20th century and you will see what I mean by legitimation. When you do this you can see how the legitimation of Nazi Germany wasn't merely the idea of Adolph Hitler's right to rule, or Hideki Tojo/Franco's right to rule in their countries, or Stalin's right to rule, the propaganda speaks to the legitimation claimed by those governments. The US governments own propaganda centers around an idea of democracy, and a government of the people. This really is a big difference in the differences between governments looking back through history, and the way it is modeled in game I think it is only fitting to have these different categories (as were originally developed, I imagine for this reason).
the difference between (real world) communism and fascism is not the government but the economic policy. the one is left oriented the other right. in terms of government both agree on a authoritarian leadership. the term dictatorship is only a description for the government and its lack of legitimation but leaves out the economic issues. and finally despotism describes an absolute rule but also leaves out the economy. it is mostly used to underline the use of force - especially against own people - and often a synonym for tyranny.
[TAB]all these words are not distict and not mutually exclusive. in fact you can describe nazi germany as a fascist dictatorship but not really despotic as the was not too excessive use of force against the own population (except for the jewish germans). stalins rule however deserves the attribute despotic as he mistreated his own populations severely. it was communist and a dictatorship too.
 
sorry, but the despotism has no legitimation. the leader is just the leader because he is able to keep the power... until someone else is powerful enough to take over.

Every government has to have some type of legitimation, and some type of legitimation other than force or at least maybe we can agree that force is certainly the most inefficient form of legitimation (which is why it by itself is almost never used by a government to maintain its power). If it does not who is enforcing the government? Somewhere in the structure of power there is legitimation at work, no matter when/where we are talking about.


very same principle with any other dictatorship. stalin was in power because he was strong enough to secure it after lenins death. that's the end of his legitimation. well, of course after all things were settled he was elected by the communist party of the soviet union formally as leader.

a personal cult about a leader is no way a legitimation. i don't understand how this can be mixed up. and by the way there was as much a personal cult about stalin as there was about hitler. but glorification is no way a legitimation.

Glorification is not legitimation in these forms of government yes, but it is in a straight despotic rule where you only have that to derive the leaders' power from. I don't think it is fair to say that Stalin's legitimation ended with his seizing of the party after Lenin's death, considering the sheer amounts of propoganda/the great purge/and policies put out by his administration before/during and after World War II really during his entire rule in an attempt to consolidate Stalin and the USSR's legitimacy among the people and within the party. The same can be said of Castro in Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam (which also doesn't fit the despotic designation) and Mao before his death holding on to power wasn't as simple as seizing it, and it took quite a bit of a legitimizing among the people of those countries throughout their existence. That legitimation was communism, which is why these states are commonly referred to as communist internally and externally (even though as has been pointed out several times already they aren't an exact replica of the ideal communist states envisioned by Marx).


formally a legitimation is derived form an accepted law - thats what's the words origin is anyway. if the law says the leader is elected by the people then his leadership is legitimate if he won the election. if the law says the rightful leader is defined by the right of succession then a monarch is a legitimate leader. but if you putsch yourself to power you break the existing law and have no kind of legitimation. thus you become a dictator.

though hitler won a election for the chancellor first he had to break laws to gain all the power and establish his leadership, a political coup. same case for general franco, lenin, stalin and a lot of other dictators. and correctly the soviet leaders that followed stalin are not view as dictators as they obtained their power by the soviet law and much less by coup.

the difference between (real world) communism and fascism is not the government but the economic policy. the one is left oriented the other right. dictatorship is only a description for the government and its legitimation but leaves out the economic issues. despotism describes an absolute rule but also leaves out the economy. it is mostly used to underline the use of force and often a synonym for tyranny.
:):):):):)all these words are not distict and not mutually exclusive. in fact you can describe nazi germany as a fascist dictatorship but not really despotic as the was not too excessive use of force against the own population (except for the jewish germans). stalins rule however deserves the attribute despotic as he mistreated his own populations severely. it was communist and a dictatorship too.

Yes the Jewish Germans, the mentally ill, various other ethnicities within Germany such as the Romani, the communists, any and all other shapes and forms of dissidents such as Sophie Scholl's white rose group and others, etc. Despotism isn't about being cruel to your own population (otherwise as you can see Hitler too clearly was a "despot" unless your definition of "your own people" is exclusionary of all the types of Germans persecuted by the Nazis) it is about having power consolidated and basing itself upon one person. Even if you want to say that is all that the USSR was during Joseph Stalin's dictatorship then (which I still don't agree with as even he had to mainly attempt to appeal to people on idealistic grounds rather than his own celebrity) how is the later USSR modeled in game? It isn't, and the politburo has no representation at all without the communism government civic. As even you said Stalin's rule was legitimated by law eventually, so I don't see how that isn't the same type of legitimation as hereditary rule where a despot decrees that power should be passed down his family line.

Monarchy is already separated from despotism because by doing this it changed the political dynamic of the nation, but I'd say the same thing happened when fascist dictatorships and Communist dictatorships were invented. Their rule was no longer just legitimated by their own decree, but they claimed (whether you believe them or not) they were acting according to their respective ideology which a truly despotic ruler would not have to do, they rule and act the way they do because they are the ruler period. Especially in the case of the USSR I think you can see this as Stalin wasn't simply replaced by another despot ruling for life, so you can see the difference at work. Whether they were "faking it" due to their megalomania doesn't really matter because frankly it worked/works even today to secure power or in other words provide legitimation for these governments. Many people around the world will claim that other forms of government in place in their countries don't live up to their supposed legitimation either (including democracy and the efficacy of the public vote), however these government's power still rely on it.

So basically the way I see it as represented IN GAME is that junta represents any kind of dictatorship (which might not be entirely perfect), but certainly not the fascism civic. Fascism can't represent dictatorship while you also have despotism if for no other reason than because that acknowledges the difference between fascist dictators and despotic rulers in which case why not distinguish communist dictators as well? Society legitimizes government, not simply through laws which can be written to say anything and legitimate anything, but there is legitimization behind the laws themselves that appeals to more differing depending on which nation/government we are talking.

I think I also need to say again that this is different from straight ideology as ideology does not have to be the form of legitimation a government appeals to for example democracy which can say whatever ideology is present, and whether you personally agree with its reasoning has its legitimacy in the vote. However it is the only one that can do this, the legitimacy of a Monarchy or Despot or Communist/Fascist dictatorship has to come from something else, no one governs without some measure of support from the people, and if you can't point to an action by the people which legitimizes it you legitimize it in other ways by god/or in the modern era by reasoning with the populace that power must be distributed this way for some greater purpose as the fascists and communists did.
 
ive explained to you how i understand the terms despotism, dictatorship, communism, fascism and legitimation and how they are commonly used here. i also explained them in consistency to wikipedia. if you understand them differently there's not much to argue about.

in modern political science despotism is not used as a formal type of government because the terms absolute monarchy, military junta, totalitarianism yield more precise descriptions. despotism is a old word and changed its meaning several times. as i said i only know it from todays use as a synonym for tyranny and brutal oppression. never heard it to be associated to a personal cult.

as for our two nice guys: in terms of government the difference between hitler and stalin area really slim. i don't see any reason to split them up. what kind of different characteristics should hitlers government have other then stalins (consider that we have economy, social, ideology, ... civics; so only the difference in government must be considered here)? what kind of different stats should they give if they are so much alike? both were totalitarian single party systems with a near to absolute power wielding leader.

IN GAME however there are several strange mixups in the civics that make little sense. for example democracy is in the same branch as republic and federal although the state i live in a democractic federal republic. of course democracy is not a government type; the republic is; and federal describes the organization of a state while not specifying the government form (you can have a federal organized monarchy or a republic). despotism as the government civic in the game has so bad stats no one will ever consider adopting this civic thus you can neglect its existence.
 
Argh... i guess i will rework the government civics myself because there is a lack of certain civic stats that are needed to get a much better large empire/small state balance so it's not a death sentence to run a smaller civ...

so what i plan are 3 core government civic branches: government, power, organization

government:
  • chiefdom
  • parliamentarian republic (overwrites parliament)
  • presidential republic (overwrites president)
  • single party republic (overwrites republic)
  • parliamentarian monarchy
  • constitutional monarchy
  • absolute monarchy (overwrites monarchy)
  • dictatorship (overwrites despotism)

power:
  • elders/gerontocracy
  • democracy
  • aristocracy (overwrites nobility)
  • plutocracy (overwrites bourgeoisie)
  • military/stratocracy (overwrites junta)
  • police state/totalitarianism (overwrites fascism)
  • theocracy - needs some civic info changes so it cannot be run with atheism or other less-religious civics
  • lobbyism
  • soviets/councils
  • technocracy - as a future civic perhaps

organizations:
  • unorganized
  • city state
  • centralized
  • federal
  • imperial/colonial
 
I think the way you have it is fine, my main complaint is that fascism was depicted seperate from despotism and not communism since they were not the same thing in practice.

The difference between Stalin and Hitler I guess is lost when you are rotting away in a Gulag or a concentration camp, or being starved/forced into the service but the difference is there for some people within the government and supporting it on the ground for different ideological reasons which shaped the way if nothing else their relations with outlier groups internally and in foreign countries (a function of government). This was not modeled in game once you took out communism, I am somehow to believe that me being a Marxist Republic or Marxist Despot (the closest model to Stalin you can currently get in game I guess?) would not absolutely ruin my reputation with capitalist states, or god forbid fascist states? Another reason I was for having communism as a government civic were some of the other penalties which at least partially modeled the internal difficulties faced by the communist states of the 20th century, maybe this would be better modeled with a counter espionage bonus if this were possible to stir up more foreign supported unrest or maybe you could model that just fine with the hit to relations, but either way there should be penalties to reflect that it isn't as if any of these so-called communist states were allowed to simply pursue their little social experiment unhindered.

to illustrate my point I can currently run a:

Federal
Marxist
Bureaucracy
with a Planned Economy
filled with godless communists (athiest)
with evil socialized social policies
Striving for international supremacy with a M.A.D. defense programs and this does hurt my relationship with anyone?

edit: I just realized that starting a future game to look at the civics screen will not show me the penalties unless people already have different civics, however if I remember from the last game I got far enough to get such a government setup I was surprised at frankly how easy it was when it should really be the most difficult set of civics to play with in my opinion that isn't just completely outdated by the time you implement it.


I've got to imagine that anti-communism is as much of a dominating social factor over the last 50 years in (West) Germany as it was here in America so to take that part of the way communism was represented in game seemed wrong to me.

I don't know if you can increase the amount of relations hit you take based on what civics the other nations have, but I think that taking Marxist should definitely be more harmful than simply Proletariat and ideally there would be enough civics I think where you could take both (with both penalties, or give Marxist some of Proletariat's bonuses along with a much heavier penalty to relations).
 
Argh... i guess i will rework the government civics myself because there is a lack of certain civic stats that are needed to get a much better large empire/small state balance so it's not a death sentence to run a smaller civ...

so what i plan are 3 core government civic branches: government, power, organization

government:
  • chiefdom
  • parliamentarian republic (overwrites parliament)
  • presidential republic (overwrites president)
  • single party republic (overwrites republic)
  • parliamentarian monarchy
  • constitutional monarchy
  • absolute monarchy (overwrites monarchy)
  • dictatorship (overwrites despotism)

power:
  • elders/gerontocracy
  • democracy
  • aristocracy (overwrites nobility)
  • plutocracy (overwrites bourgeoisie)
  • military/stratocracy (overwrites junta)
  • police state/totalitarianism (overwrites fascism)
  • theocracy - needs some civic info changes so it cannot be run with atheism or other less-religious civics
  • lobbyism
  • soviets/councils
  • technocracy - as a future civic perhaps

organizations:
  • unorganized
  • city state
  • centralized
  • federal
  • imperial/colonial

You know, I really like those suggestions. Especially for the Organization civics as the civics could be useful for quite some time. For instance, unorganized until you get city-state. City-state and centralized work for smaller states, federal for larger, Imperial/Colonial for large empires.

After all, city-states and centralized states could, at the cost of higher maintenance cost for distance and number of cities, could reasonably bring in more money and give the capital bonus production and money. On the flip-side, federal and Imperial could reduce maintenance costs but increase instability in conquered areas.

But now I'm getting off topic. :lol:
 
You know, I really like those suggestions. Especially for the Organization civics as the civics could be useful for quite some time. For instance, unorganized until you get city-state. City-state and centralized work for smaller states, federal for larger, Imperial/Colonial for large empires.

After all, city-states and centralized states could, at the cost of higher maintenance cost for distance and number of cities, could reasonably bring in more money and give the capital bonus production and money. On the flip-side, federal and Imperial could reduce maintenance costs but increase instability in conquered areas.

this is exactly the idea: smaller states run centralized or city state organization which has high maintenance cost for number of cities and/or distance to capital but increases commerce and production for the capital/n largest cities. thus smaller states don't fall back that easily in technology and economy and therefore cause much more of a challenge for larger empires. they also aim to make it possible to win the game with a small empire.

at the other hand large empires will be forced to run a federal or colonial organization due to the many cities they and their maintenance cost. thus they won't be able to get the boni for the small empire civics and must compensate that by acquiring more resources and more developed cities.
 
this is exactly the idea: smaller states run centralized or city state organization which has high maintenance cost for number of cities and/or distance to capital but increases commerce and production for the capital/n largest cities. thus smaller states don't fall back that easily in technology and economy and therefore cause much more of a challenge for larger empires. they also aim to make it possible to win the game with a small empire.

at the other hand large empires will be forced to run a federal or colonial organization due to the many cities they and their maintenance cost. thus they won't be able to get the boni for the small empire civics and must compensate that by acquiring more resources and more developed cities.

Makes perfect sense. Maybe a simple production and commerce bonuses for centralized states and a science and production bonus for city-states? Hmm....

Maybe city-states should get a culture bonus in all their cities to represent the fact each city had its own culture (like the Greek City-States) while Centralized can bring in more cash, production, and beakers overall to represent the fact that Centralized is a step-up from City-States but on par with Federal and Imperial?

In any case, I hope the AI could handle it so it won't do stupid things like run city-state even though its a continent-spanning empire. :lol:
 
i think that is one thing the AI should handle correctly due to the weighting systems it makes on the civics.

the organization civics will generally only modify city commerce and production at the expense of maintenance. city state will be for most smallest empires yielding the biggest boni (but only for the capital) while federal will be for large empires granting no direct boni but a bearable maintenance cost. centralized will be something in between them in the point of its stats. colonial will be similar to federal but concentrate more on a lowered city distance to capital factor.
 
i think that is one thing the AI should handle correctly due to the weighting systems it makes on the civics.

the organization civics will generally only modify city commerce and production at the expense of maintenance. city state will be for most smallest empires yielding the biggest boni (but only for the capital) while federal will be for large empires granting no direct boni but a bearable maintenance cost. centralized will be something in between them in the point of its stats. colonial will be similar to federal but concentrate more on a lowered city distance to capital factor.

Maybe Imperial/Colonial could be split? Imperial could be an earlier, expensive civic (more expensive than federal) but allows for more cities at a reasonable cost while Colonial reduces the costs of maintenance when you have vassals?

Until Redesigned Vassalage is implemented however, I think its probably better to keep the two together for now.

Organization could replace the somewhat useless Ideology civics. :)
 
Maybe Imperial/Colonial could be split? Imperial could be an earlier, expensive civic (more expensive than federal) but allows for more cities at a reasonable cost while Colonial reduces the costs of maintenance when you have vassals?

Until Redesigned Vassalage is implemented however, I think its probably better to keep the two together for now.
i also was thinking about a specific organization type for a military dictatorship which is what you think about. but for now i can't fit it correctly to the other civics and i lack a proper name. imperial isn't the word.

Organization could replace the somewhat useless Ideology civics. :)
to be honest i didn't ever install these civics so i can't tell. however ideology sounds like something much different then state organization.
 
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