How does research/production reallocating work?

[Naokaukodem]

When you build or search, the excedent ressource goes in the next production.

But what if the next production takes only 1 turn?

Example: You search Astronomy in 4.1 turns. So you will put in fact 5 turns, with an excedent of 0.9 reasearch turn. Then you search for Archery in 1 turn, in fact 0.2 search turn. (only a guess) Will the 0.7 turns left add to you next next search, like Nationalizm, so you will search it in 6.8 turns aka 7 instead of 7.5 aka 8, or is this bonus vanishing?

 

[JujuLautre]

Easy: there is no such thing as "4.1".

Say you research a tech that costs 4000 beakers. You're at 3900 beakers invested in that tech. You will produce 400 beakers this turn. You will then be at 4300/4000, so the 300 remaining beakers will just be overflowed into the next tech. If it's a tech that costs 200 beakers only, since you produce 400 beakers, you will have 700/200, so 500 overflow into the next one.

This is the same for builds, except there is a fancy rule saying that you cannot exceed the costs of the build in shield as overflow; all the remaining will be converted to gold. This leads to many discussions about tricks/exploits, but in the end, the idea is here.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Easy: there is no such thing as "4.1".

Huh that's just another way to pose the problem.

Say you research a tech that costs 4000 beakers. You're at 3900 beakers invested in that tech. You will produce 400 beakers this turn. You will then be at 4300/4000, so the 300 remaining beakers will just be overflowed into the next tech. If it's a tech that costs 200 beakers only, since you produce 400 beakers, you will have 700/200, so 500 overflow into the next one.

OK, this one is perfect!

This is the same for builds, except there is a fancy rule saying that you cannot exceed the costs of the build in shield as overflow; all the remaining will be converted to gold. This leads to many discussions about tricks/exploits, but in the end, the idea is here.

Oh i didn't know that.

I guess that is why in multiplayer you don't have shields overflow when you construct nothing, see this post: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=307305

Thanks for the answer!

 

[JujuLautre]

Yes; I believe this is not a bug, because if you could "store" the shields from turn to turn, you could just wait for the tech to unlock that shiny wonder, and build it instantly.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

you could just wait for the tech to unlock that shiny wonder, and build it instantly.

What's wrong with that? Obviously you've sacrificed the overflow that coulda gone into unit production. So you give up a ton of extra units for a shiny wonder. Sounds fair to me. I kinda wish the AI would be able to do that. It could build that wonder mad quick and then I'd swoop in with my overflow created units and steal the Wonder, his city, and then ask peace in exchange for that Tech that he grabbed the wonder with

 

[JujuLautre]

You did not sacrifice anything, since all production is kept for the next build.

As for myself, I do not want any more wonder production "a la Civ2", that was just way too easy to steal wonders from the AI.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

You did not sacrifice anything, since all production is kept for the next build.

As for myself, I do not want any more wonder production "a la Civ2", that was just way too easy to steal wonders from the AI.

I think you missed the gist of my point. If you can store all the overflow into the Wonder production, then those are no longer used for units. So at the expense of allowing the overflow to produce defensive and offensive units, you go for a Wonder. It is a trade up. Granted it's more of a trade up in a MP game (since the AI rarely makes an early game rush). But not to forget barbs. Unless the Wonder in question is the GW.

 

[PieceOfMind]

I think you missed the gist of my point. If you can store all the overflow into the Wonder production, then those are no longer used for units. So at the expense of allowing the overflow to produce defensive and offensive units, you go for a Wonder. It is a trade up. Granted it's more of a trade up in a MP game (since the AI rarely makes an early game rush). But not to forget barbs. Unless the Wonder in question is the GW.

Firstly, that encourages (heck it justifies) micromanagement - something that is generally undesirable in the game.

You could argue it's fair because everyone can do it, and if AIs were programmed to do it, but it's IMO way too much against the way this game is meant to be played.

Also, part of the wonder race is meant to be achieving the tech to unlock the wonder. If you could "prebuild" the wonder then you shift the balance too far toward the player who has the best production city, and diminish the value of getting to the tech first.

 

[JujuLautre]

I think you missed the gist of my point.

I did not miss it, but I think it is irrelevant to the current topic. After all, building wonders or units is already a trade-off that exists in the game, whereas here we are talking about storing hammers.

Also note that it would not be limited to wonders, you could store hammers to build other stuffs too: store plenty of hammers in all your cities, get to steel or any military tech, then build an army in much less time than it would take you otherwise. In the end, it's like you got the tech (for units, wonders or anything) plenty of turns before; isn't that unfair?

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Also, part of the wonder race is meant to be achieving the tech to unlock the wonder. If you could "prebuild" the wonder then you shift the balance too far toward the player who has the best production city, and diminish the value of getting to the tech first.

I was referring to hammer storage not prebuilding. Of course you need to have the tech first.

EDIT: Now that r_rolo1 told me about the wealth/research/culture non-degradation of stored hammers, I see what you mean.

Also note that it would not be limited to wonders, you could store hammers to build other stuffs too: store plenty of hammers in all your cities, get to steel or any military tech, then build an army in much less time than it would take you otherwise. In the end, it's like you got the tech (for units, wonders or anything) plenty of turns before; isn't that unfair?

I don't really get it. I mean storing the overflow in the actual building of the wonder, not in some vault in the city that you can pull up for 2 dozen 1 turn units. The overflow production I'm talking about goes right into the production of a unit (ie that 1 turn to crossbow after you chop a 3/4 finished worker) I mean sacrificing that overflow that would give you the 1 turn unit in order to put it into the Wonder's build progress...

This has spun out on a tangent, forget it.

 

[r_rolo1]

You know that whips overflows and chops during periods of wealth/research/culture are stored without decay , right ?

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

You know that whips overflows and chops during periods of wealth/research/culture are stored without decay , right ?

Really?! Does that mean that you can chop a warrior, chop an warrior, whip a warrior, whip a warrior, build wealth, discover tech x for wonder y and then queue up wonder y with a huge start?

EDIT: inserted note (previous post) about pre-building Wonder before tech

 

[r_rolo1]

Pretty much what you said, but it isn't that effective as you are saying.... because overflow is capped to the hammers of the build ( the rest goes to $ at a 1:1 rating ), so your scheme would only save a warrior worth of hammers . But you can definitely chop 20 forests while building wealth and they will be stored waiting for the wonder access or the connection to a resource that boosts the wonder.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

holy crap. gotta try that.