How does the AI get so many units and simultaneously build every wonder?

[CivAddict2013]

This is something that has made me mad about this game.

So situation, I'm trying to Onondoga which has the great wall.

I have like 10 Trebuchets, 10 Crossbows and 10 Long Swords. Hiawatha still has Composite Bowman and Mohawk Warriors. I completely outnumber him and out tech him.

But who wins? Me? Oh no, Hiawatha. Literally EVERY time I get close to taking his capital, he spawns a bunch of units out of nowhere. Seriously, where does the AI get the money to INSTANTLY spawn units?

Honestly, there's no way I can beat the AI when he can spawn infinite Mohawk Warriors. It's impossible. As soon as I beat all the units guarding the capital, out of NOWHERE he gets more Mohawk Warriors.

This is what makes me not like this game. I outnumber the AI, with superior units, yet I'm getting beaten? They need to fix this.

 

[mclericp]

what difficulty? On emperor the AI cheats a lot. Last time i checked, 10 siege units + 10 ranged + 5 melee outnumber 2 melee 4 range and yet my army got wiped out.

 

[redwings1340]

Well, you're trying to take a capital city against Hiawatha's while he's at the height of his UU power while trekking through a forest where they have some pretty decent combat advantages.

Hiawatha is probably training and buying a ton of mohawk warriors with a very good production capital because of the longhouse. The mohawk warriors get a combat bonus in forests, as well as a movement bonus from the UA. He's probably cheating less than you think, although certainly they do cheat a little on production and gold on levels above prince. It's just part of what makes any difficulty level higher than prince what it is.

 

[Polisurgist]

The biggest "cheat" the AI gets is on Happiness, which cascades into being good at everything else. More = more = more

Of course, it's only a "cheat" if you ignore the part of the game where you gave that to Hiawatha before you started.

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

He's hiding his troops in the forest instead of suiciding into your superior army in the open, picking you apart when he gets the opportunity or sacrificing units when he deems it necessary to avoid losing his capital. Also, an AI can move it's units after rushbuying. Also, it sounds like you are bad at tactics, because even with tgw that city should be toast. Unless mountains are involved.

 

[VicRatlhead5199]

Wanna mess with AI Hiawatha? Send in swords or pikes and a bunch of workers. Clear cut his homeland while protecting your workers with fortified infantry. Move ranged units in behind and when the trees are out of the way you can focus fire his units to death. By removing the forest you've nerfed his UA, UB and UU all at once.

 

[redwings1340]

Wanna mess with AI Hiawatha? Send in swords or pikes and a bunch of workers. Clear cut his homeland while protecting your workers with fortified infantry. Move ranged units in behind and when the trees are out of the way you can focus fire his units to death. By removing the forest you've nerfed his UA, UB and UU all at once.

That's completely brilliant!

 

[sendos]

Wanna mess with AI Hiawatha? Send in swords or pikes and a bunch of workers. Clear cut his homeland while protecting your workers with fortified infantry. Move ranged units in behind and when the trees are out of the way you can focus fire his units to death. By removing the forest you've nerfed his UA, UB and UU all at once.

A pity all that production is wasted though, but yes it is an effective plan. Also, the mohawk warriors' forest combat bonus is only in defence, unless I am mistaken.

 

[GoStu]

Wanna mess with AI Hiawatha? Send in swords or pikes and a bunch of workers. Clear cut his homeland while protecting your workers with fortified infantry. Move ranged units in behind and when the trees are out of the way you can focus fire his units to death. By removing the forest you've nerfed his UA, UB and UU all at once.

I love doing this to AIs. Goodbye, rough terrain. Hello, combat engineering!

A pity all that production is wasted though, but yes it is an effective plan. Also, the mohawk warriors' forest combat bonus is only in defence, unless I am mistaken.

Pretty sure they get it, similar to Jaguars. It shows "Attacking into Forest/Jungle".

 

[CivAddict2013]

what difficulty? On emperor the AI cheats a lot. Last time i checked, 10 siege units + 10 ranged + 5 melee outnumber 2 melee 4 range and yet my army got wiped out.

King.

I'm just trying to figure this out because if I ever try to have as much units as the AI I get in debt.

 

[redwings1340]

Want to post a screenshot? People here can analyze more effectively if they can see what you're doing.

 

[bbbt]

I don't think the AI gets that much of a bonus on king - maybe like a 20% discount on unit costs?

Hiawatha gets free forest roads with his UA, which means he doesn't have to pay road maintenance costs and generates money from city connections. It can also make it easier to connect trade caravans with the most profitable cities.

Also, the AI in general tends to favor gold above all else (i.e. building economic buildings in cities, building the trading post improvement, filling in trade routes asap).

 

[Barghaest]

I don't think the AI gets that much of a bonus on king - maybe like a 20% discount on unit costs?

Hiawatha gets free forest roads with his UA, which means he doesn't have to pay road maintenance costs and generates money from city connections. It can also make it easier to connect trade caravans with the most profitable cities.

Also, the AI in general tends to favor gold above all else (i.e. building economic buildings in cities, building the trading post improvement, filling in trade routes asap).

Discounts for King are 20% on Unit Cost, 15% on Unit Production and 70% on Unit Supply for AI... add this to their bonuses to Growth (10%) and Building Cost (15%) and you can see why they can field far more units that you and replace them quickly via production/purchase.

 

[Memoryjar]

I don't like Trebuchet. It needs to keep position before fire. City defense range is 2 so, with Great Wall I use to not go to war to this AI before Artillery.
Despite this, I wonder how you can't win with 30 units on the board ?
I can rule a map with 6 to 10 units.

 

[George Abitbol]

So situation, I'm trying to Onondoga which has the great wall.

I have like 10 Trebuchets, 10 Crossbows and 10 Long Swords. Hiawatha still has Composite Bowman and Mohawk Warriors. I completely outnumber him and out tech him.

What Civ do you play? You may have a bonus with your UU or UA you could use.

- Do you pillage improvments and roads? Your units get 25 hp back when pillaging, and his economy will suffer!

- You can use GG to build citadels, if his territory is adjacent to yours: it will negate the effect of Great Wall, can chop forest eventually, and give a piece of friendly territory to allow your units to restore quicker.

- When your army progresses in his motherland, always bring a couple of workers with as engineers: they can chop forests as say before (to allow your trebuchets and Xbows to fire) and they should build a road to his capitol: your units will come quicker and when the city will be yours, you'll get the road ready!

- You have longswords, so you should have the two XP buildings in your capitol when you produce units. Trebuchets are powerful, pick the right promotions for them (against cities).

 

[Walter R]

Just a quick q - is Onondaga coastal? Cos great wall is no protection against frigates.

 

[CivAddict2013]

I don't think the AI gets that much of a bonus on king - maybe like a 20% discount on unit costs?

Hiawatha gets free forest roads with his UA, which means he doesn't have to pay road maintenance costs and generates money from city connections. It can also make it easier to connect trade caravans with the most profitable cities.

Also, the AI in general tends to favor gold above all else (i.e. building economic buildings in cities, building the trading post improvement, filling in trade routes asap).

Then what am I doing wrong? Like I said, if I try to produce as many units as the AI, I usually end up in debt. If not cheating, how does the AI do this?

I notice this with every AI Civ. They seem to be able to have a huge army of endless units, even if they have only a few cities. Where does the AI get the money for this? That's just what I'm wondering.

A lot of times, I notice this... I'll attack a Civ and take one city.

Then out of NOWHERE the AI spawns a huge army and I get world DOW'd. Then I can't defend myself because I can't have enough units.

 

[Adjuvant]

Then what am I doing wrong? Like I said, if I try to produce as many units as the AI, I usually end up in debt. If not cheating, how does the AI do this?

I notice this with every AI Civ. They seem to be able to have a huge army of endless units, even if they have only a few cities. Where does the AI get the money for this? That's just what I'm wondering.

A lot of times, I notice this... I'll attack a Civ and take one city.

Then out of NOWHERE the AI spawns a huge army and I get world DOW'd. Then I can't defend myself because I can't have enough units.

Well, there's no way to answer this without guesses. Autocratic civs get no-brainer nationalism for reduced upkeep. Maybe they have significantly less building maintenance from fewer buildings? Maybe they make better deals for resources than you do? Maybe you don't prioritize plots with currency often? Maybe they're hitting regular golden ages and you aren't? Maybe they have commerce policies?

Some of your questions are like a frustrating game.

 

[Dr. D]

The AI will field a larger army, so it's important to take out the units surrounding the capital before taking out the city itself (especially with the Great Wall). If they spawn more units, just take them out before getting in range of the city... they'll eventually run out of units.

Another factor could be if the AI chooses the city bombardment bonuses with Tradition and the bombardment pantheon... with those two combined, cities will often blow your trebuchets to smithereens.

 

[George Abitbol]

^This. A city with this policy can be a pain in the ass. And the AI seems to shoot siege weapons first, so prepare a lot of trebuchets!