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How does the AI get so many units and simultaneously build every wonder?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by CivAddict2013, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. mclericp

    mclericp Warlord

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    in my next game I MUST do that!

    U wanna war me? Oh no u dont~
    *cuts all forests*
     
  2. qemist

    qemist Prince

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    Maybe it was. I didn't think a fort was terrain. It is a built structure, which are not normally regarded as terrain. Many things in civ don't follow the common understanding of the words the devs use to describe them, so it wouldn't surprise me if you are right.
     
  3. Amarr Emperor

    Amarr Emperor Chieftain

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    keep in mind AI also plays on chieftain and gets all the bonuses a player would on cheftain
     
  4. Barghaest

    Barghaest King

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    That's changed with BNW (and possibly with G&K). Now there is an AI Default difficulty setting and it is only used in multiplayer (since each player can set their own handicap). From my twinking with handicaps in my mod, I've come to the conclusion in solo games the AI uses the AI settings under the handicap modifying a 100% base instead of the base settings under AI Default (having my mod alter AI Default settings seemed to have no impact on their performance but that could have been due to the low bonuses I gave them under the handicap I was testing...); however, the normal settings give the AI good bonuses starting at King (Prince gets a few discounts like Unit Maintenance).

    Didn't seem the case when I was running tests to see if Cover was functioning for siege units (and it appeared broken for any unit with a Ranged Combat Strength but I might need to retest since I found some other issues - liked a hidden +25% vs Barbarians).

    No Defensive Terrain Bonuses has a <NoDefensiveBonus> flag that affects more than just terrain. It disables the unit's ability to Fortify and negated improvement bonuses from forts/citadels.
     
  5. qemist

    qemist Prince

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    <sigh> The more I learn about this game the less I like it. I see no reason for this at all. Pretty much every sort of fortification in history has been used to protect ranged units.
     
  6. LoneRebel

    LoneRebel Emperor

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    Hasn't this been answered already? You said you were playing on King. The AI gets bonuses on King to production, growth, happiness, just about everything.

    Not to mention that you're seriously attacking Hiawatha when his unique unit is at its most potent, and while he has a Great Wall?

    Why don't you call it off? Is it absolutely necessary that you attack Hiawatha right now? Is there any more advantageous direction you can approach Onondaga from? What about attacking Hiawatha's other cities first instead?

    Oh, and don't pressure yourself to play on King; you really don't have to.
     
  7. Barghaest

    Barghaest King

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    Honestly, I don't like the base game much myself... I liked the concept but was disappointed in the execution.

    The pace of the game is too rushed. Even on Marathon (which basically slows everything not just research), I can probably get a monument, 2 scouts and a shrine built before I'm in Classical (even after researching all Ancient techs and leaving Writing for last). Hardly time to get any of the other units or buildings I've unlocked built in the capital (especially if I want a second city). If I wanted a hectic feel to a game, I'd play a Real-Time Strategy game not a turn-based one.

    So I decided to mod the game to change what I disliked to fit the way I want to play (almost ready for release too, just need to finish sweeping for bugs in this test game - already found a few and I think I need to tweak the pace and AI handicaps slightly) which is one of the shining features of Civilization is how mod-friendly it is (sure there are some issues, but for the most part it's relatively simple to do the most work comes in catching errors - mainly typos - and tweaking balance - which is one of my current issues I'm working on currently since Siege units are about useless due to being one-shotted by cities because City Strength rises faster than new Siege unit strengths at my current pace).
     
  8. gingerbill

    gingerbill Prince

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    Having 30 units to attack them at that stage in the game is silly . You don't need 30 units . And you certainly don't need 10 siege units and 10 missile units , 3-4 each at most. missile units unless they in a good place for sniping aren't great on the offensive. My usual attack force is 4-8 melee , couple of mounted if it will help , 0-2 missile , 2-4 siege and a general if you got one. Plus a couple of workers for roads and destroying terrain.

    It doesn't help you picked a hard target at a bad time , great wall plus the timing of your attack makes it a bad target you should avoid , great wall is annoying , especially if you don't know how it works. Unless you have a good reason you shouldn't be fighting this war if there's an easier target..

    The AI isn't richer just because it has small bonuses on king , look at how they improve there land and there policies. The AI focuses more on gold than a good human player . They pay for it in other ways and in the long term.

    My advice is never have 30 units that early in the game , never have 10 siege units (until late when your rich) , use missile units for city defence or sniping from a good spot. Composite bowmen and a walled city are a really good efficient defence at the start. Roads help a lot.

    The main advantage a human has over the AI is upgrading units and promotions, that is the key to beating the AI at the higher difficulties above king. Either at trebuchet's or cannons you should have your army in place ready for war , upgrade them instantly you get the tech then go on the offensive and win.

    Usually an AI will attack you first , this is what you want , you mop them up on the defensive with a small army and then when you attack they have little defences. You shouldn't be losing units often , keeping them alive for promotions and upgrading is key.

    Remember little things , don't build units to have them sitting around waiting for a war, have them in the build queue 1 turn from building. The perfect army size until you are rich mid-late game is the minimum you need to not be destroyed , without losing more than the odd unit.

    I usually like to have roads built to my main targets for a quick attack (not always possible) it helps a lot. So does destroying forests that blocks siege from firing.
     
  9. Laurwin

    Laurwin Prince

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    -take great generals

    -build a pathway of citadels into the enemy's heartland (culture bombing your way into his empire, stealing ca.50% of his land)

    -defend the citadels, heal your units (medic promotion and cover promotions help in this.)


    Honestly I think you could use a couple medicII units when attacking into rough areas. (friendly terrain from citadels helps a lot too).

    Just hang in the back/ center hex with medics, surround medic wiith ranged units or melee (cover promotions)

    Hmm, although, I wonder if you could also do it the other way around, if almost every unit of your army has medicI, then that army will be pretty tough to destroy, unless the enemy has spammed tons of ranged units... I forget how many hp, the medicI or medicII does, but I bet it would still be nice to have.
     
  10. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    For Medic, all units in adjacent tiles (note: not the Medic unit itself) heal an additional 5 HP per turn. Medic II is the same (for a total of 10 HP), plus the Medic II unit itself heals an additional 5 HP per turn when outside friendly territory.
     
  11. LoneRebel

    LoneRebel Emperor

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    Really the Great Wall is a pain to fight against all the time. Its effect can be easily underestimated.

    I like the idea of cutting down forests as you move in, weakening Hiawatha in both the short term and the long term. Even if you don't finish him off in this war, it's going to hurt him for the rest of the game, since forests can't be replanted.

    And using Citadels to culture bomb into his territory also helps. The Great Wall only has effect in his territory.
     
  12. njmfff

    njmfff Prince

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    Well, that, and key to Hiawatha in midgame is his UA. Mohawks slide like crazy, plus they have bonus attack (not including Drill promotions) oh, and if he has Longhouses, he can spam anything like crazy because every forest with lumbermill is worth 3 hammers if I am not mistaken. He'll can spam Mohawk every 2-3 turns if he has lot of forest titles.
     
  13. adcarrymaokai

    adcarrymaokai Emperor

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    Doesn't AI also get promotions? Or they just always waste them on "heal instantly"?

    To the topic: it does annoy me that on Immortal you always have to catch up on to everything, but think about it this way: the AI is stupid. I mean, not stupid stupid, but it has very limited decision-making capacity. It does only what it was programmed to do. Developers cannot encompass every strategy and every little detail into the AI's thinking, and, moreover, they don't play the game 24/7. Now, the gamers give a lot more of their time to the game and find strats/bugs/abuses which devs overlooked. People have the creativity and situational thinking that the AI's do not. Look, someone came up with the idea of chopping the forests from Hiawatha--the AI would never come up with that plan! Seriously. Even the chess supercomputer has been occasionally defeated by a human player, and chess has a large but ultimate a finite number of combinations, while Civ5, while also technically finite, has pretty much infinite outcomes for the human mind and an average computer.
     
  14. Sturmgewher88mm

    Sturmgewher88mm Kaiser

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    Why not frigate spam? If you have Xbows and trebs, navigation isn't very far away.
     

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