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How does the AI get to Modern Age in Regent?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by vmxa, Nov 3, 2011.

  1. Richie0

    Richie0 Warlord

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    i have never ever had the AI reach the modern age. i've been there myself only 2 or 3 times, but the AI was still at nationalism/steam power etc.

    i play on regent, and by the time the industrial age comes around, the AI just breaks down. factories, railroads, artillery, obscene science and commerce and combined with being in debt to you each turn, is just too much for the AI to handle
     
  2. shl7070

    shl7070 Warlord

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    Modern AI on regent, never saw such a thing. Even on Emperor they won't reach it usually. But still, maybe on huge with 12+ AI they will make it. The more AI the faster they go. I usually play standard with 4-7 AI and they usually stop at early industrial. The reasons are probably high tech costs, unit overbuilding and improvements overbuilding. When I open an investigate city screen and see 60-70% tax I know the game is over for the AI, the colloseums/cathedrals and useless rifle/infantry hordes will make them self destruct.
    AI-AI wars may actually speed up the AI research as the unit burden is destroyed. Many AI nations increase research if I destroyed most of their units but left the core cities intact.
     
  3. Richie0

    Richie0 Warlord

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    personally it's why i enjoy the late ancient era and early/mid middle ages the best. it's unpredictable.

    industrial age is where you're untouchable, early ancient era is baby steps, modern age doesn't exist, and late middle era is where you're consolidating.
     
  4. AIL

    AIL Warlord

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    How about trying out my Mod? I changed quite a bunch of mechanisms that the AI can't handle very well. (Corruption, War-Weariness, Artillery-Units, Field-Improvements, Industrialization, Rushes)

    This is the starting save from a game where I wanted to test something I tried to mix up about how the AI handles Naval units. (Standard-Size, Archipel, 70% Ocean)

    I chose Regent to make sure I can reach the era where Naval-Units play more of a role.

    Turned out I could barely reach middle-ages before the egyptians destroyed me. Gave it a second try, where I wanted to do better with more micro-management, adapting tech-choices and trying to settle into their direction quicker so I can have more land.

    Went even worse.

    I would be quite impressed if someone could win this.
     

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  5. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    F10 doesn't work. Which victory conditions do you have enabled? I also can't mine straight away... what tech do I need for that? Nor can France build the Great Wall straight away... why not since you've put it at Masonry, and put the Pyramids back to Construction?

    Wait... I can mine a forest, but not a grassland? Also, how do I clear forests?

    O.K. so I learned Maths, and have ivory hooked up, but I can't build the Statue of Zeus!
     

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  6. AIL

    AIL Warlord

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    Guess I should have linked to the Thread describing the changes of the Mod.

    "F10 doesn't work. Which victory conditions do you have enabled?"
    I don't know why that is, might be true for all mods but the little "v" at the right of the Minimap should work. All victory-conditions are active.

    "I also can't mine straight away... what tech do I need for that?"
    You can't mine grasslands in this mod. You can irrigate it without fresh water when you have Construction.

    "Nor can France build the Great Wall straight away... why not since you've put it at Masonry, and put the Pyramids back to Construction?"
    You need a forge in a city (requires Bronze-Working costs 80 Shields and 1 GPT, gives +25% Production) before you can build any wonders. To compensate most of the wonders now have no timeout anymore.
    This change affects the performance of the AI way more than it first might sound: They won't get forges before around 8-10 production but they would try to build Wonders even in Cities that have only 2 or 3 production. I have seen AIs building 4 Wonders in 6 Cities wich of course made it extremely easy to wipe them out. Won't happen anymore. They will get tons of units instead of trying to go for wonders in unproductive cities.

    "Wait... I can mine a forest, but not a grassland?"
    Yes. You can only build one type of improvment for any given tile. This way the AI can't build the wrong one. The mine of course represents a lumber-mill.
    "Also, how do I clear forests?"
    You can't. Also with Mines they are pretty productive (same as hills).

    "O.K. so I learned Maths, and have ivory hooked up, but I can't build the Statue of Zeus!"
    As I said, you need a forge first... however, good idea, this might work pretty well on that map to compensate for not having Iron nor Horses.

    Edit: From continuing your save and following the Ancient-Cav-Approach, I managed to survive until 1280 AD. The Egypts then killed me with real Cavs and where in Industrial age (not Modern-age as requested by the thread)
     
  7. AIL

    AIL Warlord

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    Here's another start from my Mod where I lost at Regent:
     

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  8. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    What does all of this have to do with my thread? I mean your mod is a different game and not meaningful to the topic. If you find that the AI does not have enough units, play at a higher level. I never found the AI to be short of units on AWDG or Sid.
     
  9. AIL

    AIL Warlord

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    Well, obviously our ways of having fun with the game are quite different from each other.

    I am having a lot of it by observing the AI players, analyzing their weaknesses and using the tool of modding to circumvent them. (I would love if I could access the source-code of the AI, but unfortunately I can't)

    I actually feel some kind of satisfaction when I see how it turns out and see them beat me while not having production-advantages.

    When I beat up the germans in an earlier version of the Mod on emperor, I was not thinking:
    "Hey, I'm a decent emperor-player."
    I was thinking:
    "Something prevents those guys from playing as effective as they could. Let's figure out what it is and fix it."

    I figuered it was the way how the AI handles Wonders and was happy when I found a way how to make em handle those with reasoning instead of having to remove them completely.

    Right now I'm actually quite impressed of what the AI is capable of if the game offers them circumstances that they are capable to deal with well.

    So the reason to post here is that I felt the urge to step up in defense of you guys making fun of the AI.
    I wanted to prove that the AI indeed is capable of beating the human player without any production-advantage (aka Regent-Level) if it does not have to deal with game-mechanics it cannot handle properly. (and you can't use them against it)

    It is "a different game",yes, I have to agree, but it is played by the same AI and at the same level, so I still feel my posts and example-saves of starting-positions that are really tough at Regent are of at least some relevance.

    I thought that players like you, might be seeking out for a challenge that is somewhat different from their usual game-experience. (as in "uh, can't mine there? wtf")
    I'd like to see if it is me playing bad to cause me losing in the games from these saves or if they really aren't winnable.
     
  10. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    AIL I am happy you are happy, start your own thread. Your mod has nothing to do with the issue I raised. It is a different game, just like CCM is a different game from std C3C. They have different rules.
     
  11. scratchthepitch

    scratchthepitch King

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    AIL

    Wrong forum. I think you would get a more positive response in the creation and customization forum to your work. The people there welcome new developments in AI improvement. Most of the people who post in the strategy and general sections are not very interested in improving the AI. These forums are mostly for those who play the unmodded game and want to find out how the basic games work if they are beginners. The more experienced posters like to discuss the best exploits and tactics to use to improve score and get a sooner finish date. The opposite of seeking ways to improve the AI, they seek ways to exploit the game's weaknesses. Posting mods or talking about mods in these two sections generally elicits a negative reaction. I would think a strategy forum would also be for mod strategy, but in practice here, to discuss strategy in a mod, you need to go to the creation and customization section.

    I have not been actively doing much with Civ3 lately, but a little of what you have done in your mod I've also used in modding trying to make the AI better. I may not have much to contribute, but I'm certainly interested in what you have found out. The creation forum people would probably be very interested in your work and can provide you with an excellent sounding board to bounce your ideas off of.
     

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