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How does war weariness work?

Discussion in 'Civ3 Strategy Articles' started by Oystein, Aug 16, 2003.

  1. yoshi74

    yoshi74 Tourist from Mars

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    From my experiences the the same rules apply to the ai as well. I had a war initiated by my neigbors, the netherlands. They declared war. Everyone was in demo. I bought several other to join on my side, namely first the russians, our common neighbor.
    The netherlands never switched from democracy, even when losing city after city. I assume every war declaration gave them the -30 points, witch outweightes the points for losing cities and units.
    The russians on the other side switched quite fast to faschism. They declared war and suffered heavy causalitities from the beginning.
    So i would assume war weariness does count for the ai, at least certain aspects.
     
  2. Oystein

    Oystein Chieftain

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    War weariness counts for the AI, but it works irrationally.

    I have never seen anyone getting -30wwp when other civs are brought into war with MA or MPP.

    I guess netherlands are last in playing order. Because the bug, they will not suffer for losing cities/units.

    I have made 2 test to support my bug claim. See
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70172
     
  3. anarres

    anarres anarchist revolutionary

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    Thanks Oystein, that clears it up, even if it is very disappointing news. :)
     
  4. YoungEagle

    YoungEagle Chieftain

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    2 questions...

    1) Is it possible to see the current wwp anywhere in the game? Do I need an editor to see?

    2) Does having my bombers shot down by flak count as wwp against me?
     
  5. thriller

    thriller Chieftain

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    What does this actually mean in real terms?

    The number of happy/content/unhappy people is a calculated number depending upon your difficulty level and adjusted by factors such as luxuries connected, happiness buildings/wonders and commerce redirected to luxuries.

    So at level 1 where 25% of people are unhappy.....does this mean that 25% of your total population goes from content to unhappy, or from happy to unhappy? And is it irrespective of any other happiness influences? For example, you have a size 11 city with 6 happy, 2 content and 3 unhappy citizens (after the effect of some happiness buildings, luxuries, etc). Once you get to level 1, does this mean that your unhappy citizens increases by 25% x 11 = 2.75, rounded down to 2?.....meaning your 2 content citizens now become unhappy? Any change to the 6 happy citizens?
     
  6. TheNiceOne

    TheNiceOne Chieftain

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    Think of unhappiness and happiness as points: unhappiness points (up) and happiness points (hp). Each city has several causes that modifies those two numbers, and the final up and hp numbers after all modifications are displayed as happy or unhappy people.

    First, all up are counted. It starts with one up for each citizen above the number born happy (9 in your size 11 city if playing on regent. Assume that you have improvements/wonders that make totally 6 unhappy->content and 6 luxuries. The improvements will reduce the up from 9 to 3. The luxuries will then increase th hp from zero to 6, for a total of 6 hp and 3 up, giving 6 happy, 3 unhappy and the rest (2) content.

    Now, if the 25% WW kicks in, there will be 4 more up (25% of 11), thus your total up before content/happiness modification becomes 13 (more than your number of citizens). If you only had one temple in the city, all citizens would still be unhappy, since the temple would reduce the up from 13 to 12, still more than the number of citizens.
    But with 6 unhappy-content improvements you'll get the up reduced from 13 to 7. The first 4 luxuries will increase the hp from zero to 4, leaving 4 hp and 7 up.
    Now the number of hp + up is equal to the number of citizens, and therefore the next luxury point cannot just increase hp by one, but will instead be treated as a content->happiness point which reduces the up by one (to 6), and the last luxury point can then increase the hp by one (to 5).

    The city will therefore end up with 5 happy and 6 unhappy people, giving unrest in your city.

    A simpler way of calculating the additonal WW effect is to start with your 6 happy, 2 content and 3 unhappy, and then for each of the 4 new up, make one content unhappy - if there are no content, make one happy content.
     
  7. Oystein

    Oystein Chieftain

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    YoungEagle:
    The only place I know of where you can read the wwp is in the savefile...

    Bombers shot down by flaks does not add to wwp

    TheNiceOne:
    Nice discription of how to calculate happy people, but there is one mistake. The number from ww is rounded down. With 11 citizen, only 2 will become unhappy assuming 25% ww. (I really dont know how you get 25% of 11 to be 4)
     
  8. TheNiceOne

    TheNiceOne Chieftain

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    I really don't know either. :crazyeye: I guess it was to late on a friday for me ... except that I wrote it on thursday... Oh well, it was a busy week :p
     
  9. thriller

    thriller Chieftain

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    Ok, thanks for the explanation.

    So, the improvements such as temple, cathedral, wonders, etc, make unhappy people content, whereas luxuries make content people happy?

    Also, with a marketplace the number of content --> happy would multiply depending on the number of luxuries, correct?

    Now, use of the luxury slider is the same as luxuries? ie, happy --> content?
     
  10. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    "Number of unhappy people is round down. The number from each civ is added together and subtract 25% for police station and 1 for US (Universal Sufferage). The total number of unhappy citizen from ww can not exceed number of citizen."

    So this means that as a republic Without Police or US, at war with two powers (just leaving troops in both territories no other causes of war weariness)
    Instead of 25% at 15 turns, (30 total wwp)
    I'll have 0% until 30 turns (because none have reached level 1 yet)
    then
    I'll jump straight to 50% at 30 turns
    ..and 100% at 60 (50+50)

    (and also that US is basically worthless..)
     
  11. Oystein

    Oystein Chieftain

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    Correct.

    (Well except that you need 31 wwp to get ww. 30 wwp gives no effect.)
     
  12. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

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    This sentence always confuses me.

    Does it mean "every civ has one wwp for all other civs", or "every civ has one wwp for every other civs"?

    Simply put, if I am in war with two AIs, how many wwp the system tracks for _me_?

    This leads to a rather confusing situation.

    We know ww is gone after 20 turns, but say if I make peace with A at turn X (with ww1), and make peace with B at turn X+10 (with ww2), and I declare on A again at turn X+20, what would be my current WW?
     
  13. binyo66

    binyo66 Chieftain

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    1. U can see using multitool.
    2. Here an example, rome (me), and Celts (AI).
    One thing I observed, according to multitools here, the highest WW is 999. After that it resets to 0 (and most likely, u got Love King Day).
     

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  14. binyo66

    binyo66 Chieftain

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    Regarding AI-AI. Again based on Multitools (I opened a conquest sav file) between 2 Lock MPP fighting (refused contact starts with 999999, so if u played more turn than that, it would be peace :D )
     

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  15. Oystein

    Oystein Chieftain

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    To calculate _your_ ww, the system stores one number for each of the other civs.
    What has happened between you and B does not mather as long as you are in peace with B. So you only has to worry about A. But 20 turns of peace does NOT mean that ww is gone. If the war against A was really bloody, you will experience ww at once. I have added a list of how the wwp is reduced in peace in my first post.
     
  16. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

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    Thanks for the clarification! I guess I got the wrong impression then. I'll read your post once more.
     
  17. a4phantom

    a4phantom Perma-newbie

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    How does "revolt" work? For a democracy consumed with war weariness.
     
  18. LordKestrel

    LordKestrel Chieftain

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    Your civ descends into Anarchy, just like if you had clicked the Revolt button in the city advisor screen. After the period of anarchy is over, you can choose a new government.
     
  19. rcoutme

    rcoutme Chieftain

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    Where can I get the multitool to see the WW points?
     
  20. a4phantom

    a4phantom Perma-newbie

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    So if a rival civ is a Democracy and we're relatively evenly balanced, how can I cheaply drive up their WW? Will a phoney war (say if we're on opposite sides of the globe) do it, or do I have to invade?
     

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