How is trading now?
- Thread starter Victoria
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Seems like he has a surplus of Horses. I’ve seen in my last game that non-critical resources are valued close to 1g. So, the total deal value would be ~45g, or 1.5gpt. Open borders are usually 1gpt, so it all is within reasonable pricing.
What surprised me really is that AI is willing to trade 1 lux for 1 lux basically at any moment, almost regardless of diplo situation. Only when diplo was a disaster, like Unfriendly, -50 modifiers and 200 grievances, then they wanted something more.
What surprised me really is that AI is willing to trade 1 lux for 1 lux basically at any moment, almost regardless of diplo situation. Only when diplo was a disaster, like Unfriendly, -50 modifiers and 200 grievances, then they wanted something more.
As before, the AI values open borders too much. I abuse this situation quite extensively in the early game. It's nothing new to NFP, though. Overall, I think that trading has much improved with the latest patch. No more buying and selling strategics one at a time!
Trading seems to be pretty sensible for me so far, though some Civs still overvalue favor imho.
I agree in the above Monty just has plenty of horses and considers them at 1 gpt. There's not going to be the calculus that he could get more from someone else.
It's why I'd like to see them go more to a 'common market' system (ala the Endless games), where everyone buys or sells at the 'going rate' which changes based on demand.
I agree in the above Monty just has plenty of horses and considers them at 1 gpt. There's not going to be the calculus that he could get more from someone else.
It's why I'd like to see them go more to a 'common market' system (ala the Endless games), where everyone buys or sells at the 'going rate' which changes based on demand.
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Traded my lux for his lux and 2GPT the next turn...
I may have found an abuse, still playing around with it.
EDIT: Just checked after dinner... 3 turns on
EDIT. And onother one about 5 turns later
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The Highwayman
King
They still seem to offer decent deals if they like you. They seem to offer me strategics more often, but I could just be crazy. 1 strategic or diplo favor still equals 1 gpt if their bulk gold has been depleted 
Don't you go talking in the passive voice now, we all know who was responsible.been depleted
tiamats4esgares
Warlord
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It wasn't that he valued horses at around 1 gold each, he values them MUCH lower. If you were to buy 1 horse at a time they would be 1 gold each, but he's likely to also sell you 20 for 1 gold. He either is getting a ton per turn or doesn't want to use them.
Also, the AI doesn't value 1 gpt at 30 gold. They value it around 15-22.5 gold depending how friendly they are, sometimes even less.
As for luxury resources, I've noticed they value my last copy of something more than if I had duplicates. I think that's new. Same for their own, of course, though that's not new. In the last screen shot, that was likely your last Marble but he had plenty of Jade. So you gain 4 gpt and 5 gold, but he gains a luxury resource. Win/win.
Also, the AI doesn't value 1 gpt at 30 gold. They value it around 15-22.5 gold depending how friendly they are, sometimes even less.
As for luxury resources, I've noticed they value my last copy of something more than if I had duplicates. I think that's new. Same for their own, of course, though that's not new. In the last screen shot, that was likely your last Marble but he had plenty of Jade. So you gain 4 gpt and 5 gold, but he gains a luxury resource. Win/win.
Lol I must check if I can get more. I usually select the lux I want, then give one of mine, and close the deal. Never actually tried to get more from AI
Bibor
Doomsday Machine
My experiences with trading are great. All AIs now seem to actually need something, or not and if yes, they’re willing to pay.
I’ve had quite a few offers of 1 gold (not per turn) for my non-copy (for them) luxury, just because they didn’t need it.
I’ve had quite a few offers of 1 gold (not per turn) for my non-copy (for them) luxury, just because they didn’t need it.
tiamats4esgares
Warlord
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Same. And that's new too.
Overall trade seems better now but I'm sure it still has its flaws.
bengalryan9
King
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I was pretty impressed to see an AI who didn't have horses offer to trade me iron that I didn't have 20-for-20. Sounds simple but I don't know that I'd ever seen that before.
Aurelesk
King
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Maybe Montezuma is an exception. We know that civilizations that want to achieve the Congress victory are willing to give double for Diplomatic Favor (well, it was the case, I need to check this). Either Montezuma now values the luxury ressources more, willing to trade 3 for 2 (because he gains 12 Amenities out of it), or is triggered to value them more because of his agenda (maybe "Fun-Loving" works the same). Unhappy civilizations are willing to pay more, and overly happy are willing to pay less.
After some testing:
It seems that I can trade my luxuries between at 4, 7 or 10 GPT but they are willing to sell them at 2 GPT. It seems civilization are willing to pay more if one of their city is not at 100/100 Loyalty, or if one of their city is displeased or unhappy. Maybe they would pay even more if most of their city are facing Unrest while loosing Loyalty.
I didn't have a save with an unhappy population that was loosing loyalty, so I cannot test if the AI will charge you more if you need the luxuries.
If a civilization likes you, the price of all thing you will buy and sell will raise. For example, if a Writing is 10 GPT, you can sell it at 12 GPT, or buy it at 12 GPT. You can sell at better rate but buy at worse rate. I guess they did that because if you could the Writing at 12 GPT and get it back at 10 GPT, it will leads to some exploit.
On the contrary, if the civilization dislike you, it will add a -5 GPT on any trade you ask. You can sell a Writing at 5 GPT (10 GPT - 5 GPT imbalance) at a civilization that denounced you, but 10 Writings can be sold at 95 GPT (10 × 10 GPT - 5 GPT imabalance).
If you need to buy something, it is the same + a flat additional cost. A Writing will cost me 15 GPT + 206 Gold (10 + 5 GPT trade imbalance + 206 flat gold), but 2 Writings will cost 25 GPT + 344 Gold (2 × 10 + 5 + 344*, 344 not being twice as 206 and I don't why). Basicly, you can still sell at the AI if you are enemies as long you sell all in one go for just a -5 GPT penalty, but you can't buy anything without paying a huge chunk of gold.
Prices may rise up depending on the target victory, or agenda. "Fun-loving" leaders will pay more for luxuries (not tested), while civilization like Canada or Sweden will pay a DF at 10 Gold instead of 5 (or 6 GPT the 10 DF instead of 3 GPT, tested).
Also, you can bankrupt a civilization easily. When you offer something and ask what they are willing to give you in exchange, they will give at least 1 Gold. If they do not have any flat Gold left: 1 GPT. So you could buy all their Gold with DF, then exchange 1 by 1 all your useless strategic ressource at 1GPT, then buying back at a ridiculous price and repeat the process until they do not have any Gold left.
For example, Canada has 230 GPT and 3200 Gold. I sell 300 DF for all his Gold, then sell 1 by 1 my Iron at 1 GPT. Then buy it back at 5 GPT, and repeat.
The AI leaders too polite and to do not want to upset you when you want to sell your silly Horses. They need to toughen up and ask you politely yet firmly to leave, instead to give you Gold. At least, they do not ask a 57 years GDP of your empire as Gold for 20 Niter anymore.
It is too bad that the trade screen does not work properly in other languages. "One Time Deals" becomes "Accords Ponc..." and "For 30 Turns" becomes "Pendant 30 To...". Also, I can't see how GPT they generate and have to manually checks. But for mass trading, the new trade screen seems better.
After some testing:
It seems that I can trade my luxuries between at 4, 7 or 10 GPT but they are willing to sell them at 2 GPT. It seems civilization are willing to pay more if one of their city is not at 100/100 Loyalty, or if one of their city is displeased or unhappy. Maybe they would pay even more if most of their city are facing Unrest while loosing Loyalty.
I didn't have a save with an unhappy population that was loosing loyalty, so I cannot test if the AI will charge you more if you need the luxuries.
If a civilization likes you, the price of all thing you will buy and sell will raise. For example, if a Writing is 10 GPT, you can sell it at 12 GPT, or buy it at 12 GPT. You can sell at better rate but buy at worse rate. I guess they did that because if you could the Writing at 12 GPT and get it back at 10 GPT, it will leads to some exploit.
On the contrary, if the civilization dislike you, it will add a -5 GPT on any trade you ask. You can sell a Writing at 5 GPT (10 GPT - 5 GPT imbalance) at a civilization that denounced you, but 10 Writings can be sold at 95 GPT (10 × 10 GPT - 5 GPT imabalance).
If you need to buy something, it is the same + a flat additional cost. A Writing will cost me 15 GPT + 206 Gold (10 + 5 GPT trade imbalance + 206 flat gold), but 2 Writings will cost 25 GPT + 344 Gold (2 × 10 + 5 + 344*, 344 not being twice as 206 and I don't why). Basicly, you can still sell at the AI if you are enemies as long you sell all in one go for just a -5 GPT penalty, but you can't buy anything without paying a huge chunk of gold.
Prices may rise up depending on the target victory, or agenda. "Fun-loving" leaders will pay more for luxuries (not tested), while civilization like Canada or Sweden will pay a DF at 10 Gold instead of 5 (or 6 GPT the 10 DF instead of 3 GPT, tested).
Also, you can bankrupt a civilization easily. When you offer something and ask what they are willing to give you in exchange, they will give at least 1 Gold. If they do not have any flat Gold left: 1 GPT. So you could buy all their Gold with DF, then exchange 1 by 1 all your useless strategic ressource at 1GPT, then buying back at a ridiculous price and repeat the process until they do not have any Gold left.
For example, Canada has 230 GPT and 3200 Gold. I sell 300 DF for all his Gold, then sell 1 by 1 my Iron at 1 GPT. Then buy it back at 5 GPT, and repeat.
The AI leaders too polite and to do not want to upset you when you want to sell your silly Horses. They need to toughen up and ask you politely yet firmly to leave, instead to give you Gold. At least, they do not ask a 57 years GDP of your empire as Gold for 20 Niter anymore.
It is too bad that the trade screen does not work properly in other languages. "One Time Deals" becomes "Accords Ponc..." and "For 30 Turns" becomes "Pendant 30 To...". Also, I can't see how GPT they generate and have to manually checks. But for mass trading, the new trade screen seems better.
Tuvok694
Prince
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- Nov 11, 2002
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- 492
Concerning trade: I still wonder why the developers do not make it possible that I can see which luxuries I already have WHILE the deal window is on screen. Without Concise UI mod that part of the game would be almost unplayable for me. Or do they expect me to keep written notes about my luxury resources?
Pfeffersack
Deity
Yes, an undocumented fix for the bug, which made the AI charging excessive prices in the past, as soon as any deal involved purchasing more than one strategic ressource unit from them.
So it is actually possible to get a useful amount of strategic resources from them now?
I have no iron on my current game so I offered to buy some from Saladin - only 10, which was what I needed. He charged me a bit of a silly price but I was playing Poland and have about 8 trade routes so it's not exactly an issue. The very next turn he asked to buy my 10 iron for a much lower price than I was paying him.
That's the only time I've had something particularly odd post-patch.
That's the only time I've had something particularly odd post-patch.
Deals like this are really bothering me. 6 or 7 diplo favor per luxury also works. There should be an incentive to settle new cities near unique luxuries but the way it is now, you can just get all amenities on the map for basically nothing.
I've also had a very odd "Joint War" deal in the early game where the AI traded everything they had including great works.
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
People have been saying this over and over. But I can still sell strategics for 1 GPT. Is that because I haven't bought the pass? Shouldn't our patches still technically be the same, pass or not? It is definitely still in the game, and definitely still abusable..
I wish they had just actually fixed this by applying coherent pricing to strategics (ex: 1 strategic is worth 0.5 GPT minimum if the person you are trading with has 0 bulk gold). I still spend too much time in the trade screen, even with Coherent UI and alla that..
There are enough incentives to settle cities already, and if your "problem" is "too many Amenities" I don't really know what to tell you. Try to grow your cities faster perhaps.
Unless I buy luxes from the AI and run a lot of Amenity policies I always end up at -3 or -2 because my cities grow so fast. So at around T120 I will have to start buying massive amounts of luxes from the AI. I think the balance works out really well right now.
I have gotten upwards of eleven and some lump, I think 12GPT was the highest.
That is incredibly info, thank you. This means that when a Civ dislikes you you should always strive to do as few individual deals as possible, and as many big deals as possible.
They still seem to offer decent deals if they like you. They seem to offer me strategics more often, but I could just be crazy. 1 strategic or diplo favor still equals 1 gpt if their bulk gold has been depleted
Yes, exactly! Does making many of those deals still crash your game? I am unsure if I have seen a crash post-patch. I think I did.
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